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Backdoor roth, SEP-IRA to 401K conversion, pro-rata rule

I have a question about what happens to my IRA basis for a back door roth if I convert part of my IRAs to a 401k.  Currently I have a traditional IRA (which has received some non-deductible contributions over the years), a roth IRA, and a SEP-IRA at work.  This year all new contributions at work are moving to a 401K, so that's out of the basis picture.  Fine.

 

The broker says we can roll our SEP-IRA into the 401K which I would like to do but have not done yet; the funds are fine and I like the simplification.  However for a few years I have been contributing the limit to the traditional IRA and rolling it to the ROTH-IRA outside of work.  There is still a non-deductible contribution  basis, and turbotax has been tracking the basis over the total of the SEP-IRA and my traditional IRA and writing off the correct percentage of the non-deductible contributions using the pro-rata rule.

 

So, if I roll the SEP-IRA to the new 401K this year, how do I calculate the basis for the backdoor roth rollover this year?  On Dec 31 2021 the new traditional IRA basis for the calculation will be the traditional IRA only, but would I be correct to assume that if the 401K lowers my total traditional ira by 60%, the IRS will assume  for the calculation that 60% of my non-deductible contributions went to the 401K, so my deduction is lowered?  That would be my assumption by reading about mixing, anyone know for sure?

 

 

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2 Replies
dmertz
Level 15

Backdoor roth, SEP-IRA to 401K conversion, pro-rata rule

Amounts rolled over from any kind of traditional IRA, including a SEP-IRA, are only permitted to be from pre-tax money in your traditional IRAs.  The basis in nondeductible traditional IRA contributions remains in your traditional IRAs.

 

In calculating the amount of your SEP-IRA that you are permitted to roll over to the 401(k), you must sum the values of all of your traditional IRAs, including the SEP-IRA, and subtract the amount of your basis in nondeductible traditional IRAs.  For example, if you have $20,000 in a SEP-IRA, $5,000 in another traditional IRA and your basis in nondeductible traditional IRA contributions is $10,000, the total in your traditional IRAs is $25,000 but only $15,000 is pre-tax and is the maximum that could be rolled over to the 401(k).

 

Note that the amount of your pre-tax money used in the calculation would be the sum of the amounts in your traditional IRAs at year end, not the amount in your traditional IRAs at the time that you do the rollover to the 401(k) earlier in the year, plus the amount rolled over to the 401(k).  You must be careful that your balance in traditional IRAs does not drop due to investment performance between the time you do the rollover and the time you do the Roth conversion that brings your year-end balance in traditional IRAs to zero, otherwise you will have impermissible rolled over part of your basis into the 401(k).  One way to ensure this is to move to a stable-value investment an amount equal to your basis that you will later convert to Roth, roll over the rest of your assets in traditional IRAs (or some smaller amount if you are willing to have some portion of your Roth conversion be taxable), then convert all remaining traditional IRA assets to Roth.

Backdoor roth, SEP-IRA to 401K conversion, pro-rata rule

  Thank you for that clear explanation! I should be fine on the basis unless there is a crash this year, I'll wait until later to get it going.

 

Thanks!

 

 

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