turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Close icon
Do you have a TurboTax Online account?

We'll help you get started or pick up where you left off.

Sale of Converted Rental Property

@Carl

I've read a number of posts about how to handle the sale of a rental property and understand the general approach specifically that if you sell at a gain or a lose you need to describe each depreciating asset as such so TT calculates things correctly.  The specifics of my situation are:

 

> 2006: Bought second property for $400,000 ($8,000 closing costs)

> 2014: Converted to rental property (90% rental, 10% personal use)

> $25,000 in upgrades pre-rental conversion

> $20,000 in upgrades post rental conversion (placed in service and depreciated)

> $15,000 in upgrades post rental conversion (never placed in service)

> $50,000 in building depreciation claimed since conversion

> 2019: Sold second property for $400,000 ($27,000 closing costs)

 

I'm trying to offset any potential gain.  My specific questions are:

 

> Can I use any of the $25,000 pre-rental upgrades to offset the gain?

> How do I close out the $20,000 of upgrades already in service?

> How do I handle the $15,000 of upgrades never placed in service?

> Can any of the purchase closing costs be claimed?

> Can any of the sale closing costs be claim?

 

Thanks you in advance for your help!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Connect with an expert
x
Do you have an Intuit account?

Do you have an Intuit account?

You'll need to sign in or create an account to connect with an expert.

7 Replies
Carl
Level 15

Sale of Converted Rental Property

You need to clarify your 90% rental/10% personal use. What was the 10% personal use for? Are you saying you had 10% personal use every single year you rented it out? I ask these questions, because I suspect you did things wrong. So clarification is not an option here. It's a must.

Sale of Converted Rental Property

@Carl 

 

We used the property for our family vacation each year.  That is what comprised the 10% personal use I'm referring to.  The rest of the year the property was either rented or available to rent.

Carl
Level 15

Sale of Converted Rental Property

Gotcha. I just like to confirm, because a lot of people do not read the small print that clearly informs as I stated earlier. So with 10% personal use that means you occupied it for 36 days of the year, or thereabouts.

> Can I use any of the $25,000 pre-rental upgrades to offset the gain?

I suspect what you are calling upgrades, are actually property improvements. Property improvements add to the cost basis of the property. Therefore, you are required to have been depreciating those property improvements since the date they were completed and placed "in service".

> How do I close out the $20,000 of upgrades already in service?

If they are "IN FACT" property improvements, then you "SHOULD" have them listed as such in the assets/depreciation section. I've got instructions (Not posting them yet) on how to "correctly" report the sale of rental property *PROVIDED* you do not convert it to personal use before the closing date of the sale.

> How do I handle the $15,000 of upgrades never placed in service?

Why were they never placed in service? Is it because they were completed after the last renter moved out, and before you closed on the sale?

> Can any of the purchase closing costs be claimed?

They are (or should be) already claimed on the date the property was placed in service. You have two types of closing costs. Those cost associated with acquisition of the property get added to the cost basis of the property. For example, the title transfer fees that had to be paid at the courthouse to get the seller's name off the deed and your name on the need. If you did everything correctly in the first year you placed this property in service as a rental, that would have been taken care of "for you" automatically by the program.

Those costs associated with acquisition of the loan are amortized (not capitalized) and deducted (not depreciated) over the life of the loan. For example, if the lender "required" a property appraisal that "you" had to pay for, that would be included as a loan acquisition cost.

You'll see your loan acquisition cost on the IRS Form 4562 that prints in landscape format that's titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report" for that specific rental property.  The capitalized assets being depreciated are listed on that form first. Then a few lines below the last asset will be your amortized costs.

> Can any of the sale closing costs be claim?

The program will ask you for these items if they are in fact, deductible.

Sale of Converted Rental Property

@Carl 

 

Thank you for your reply.  See my answers below.  

 

> Can I use any of the $25,000 pre-rental upgrades to offset the gain?

I suspect what you are calling upgrades, are actually property improvements. Property improvements add to the cost basis of the property. Therefore, you are required to have been depreciating those property improvements since the date they were completed and placed "in service".

ANSWER - They are property improvements as you've suggested.  The concept of placing something in service was unknown to me at the time since we had yet to turn the property into a rental hence no depreciation was ever started.  In hindsight I guess I should have included them as part of the overall building cost when we did begin renting and claiming depreciation in 2014.  My question centers on my ability to use any of these pre-rental improvements to adjust the cost basis "after the fact"

> How do I close out the $20,000 of upgrades already in service?

If they are "IN FACT" property improvements, then you "SHOULD" have them listed as such in the assets/depreciation section. I've got instructions (Not posting them yet) on how to "correctly" report the sale of rental property *PROVIDED* you do not convert it to personal use before the closing date of the sale.

ANSWER - I do have this set already listed.  Just need to know how to correctly report the sale.  Having read some of your other posts I understand the approach that ALL assets in service should show a collective loss or gain even if only $1 so TT calculates things correctly.  In my case I bought the house for the exact same price I sold it for so not sure how that affects the approach.

> How do I handle the $15,000 of upgrades never placed in service?

Why were they never placed in service? Is it because they were completed after the last renter moved out, and before you closed on the sale?

ANSWER - They were not placed in service because I simply didn't understand all of this at the time.    The were absolutely done during the active rental period before the sale.  Another "after the fact" item I'm trying to get credit for.

> Can any of the purchase closing costs be claimed?

They are (or should be) already claimed on the date the property was placed in service. You have two types of closing costs. Those cost associated with acquisition of the property get added to the cost basis of the property. For example, the title transfer fees that had to be paid at the courthouse to get the seller's name off the deed and your name on the need. If you did everything correctly in the first year you placed this property in service as a rental, that would have been taken care of "for you" automatically by the program.

Those costs associated with acquisition of the loan are amortized (not capitalized) and deducted (not depreciated) over the life of the loan. For example, if the lender "required" a property appraisal that "you" had to pay for, that would be included as a loan acquisition cost.

You'll see your loan acquisition cost on the IRS Form 4562 that prints in landscape format that's titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report" for that specific rental property.  The capitalized assets being depreciated are listed on that form first. Then a few lines below the last asset will be your amortized costs.

ANSWER - Yet another item I potentially missed out on when placing the property in service.  On IRS Form 4562 from my 2018 return I don't see any assets listed not amortized costs  There is a single amount on line 17 titled "MACRS deductions for assets placed in service in tax years beginning before 2018."

> Can any of the sale closing costs be claim?

The program will ask you for these items if they are in fact, deductible.

ANSWER - I looked and the program did ask for the closing costs.  All good here.

Carl
Level 15

Sale of Converted Rental Property

Bear with me. When working in a text based communications media like this forum, we can only use our imagination to "see" what each of us is talking about, based on the wording of our posts. From what I read so far, I think we're still not on the same page.

Based on your reference to "line 17" of the 4562, I believe you're looking at the wrong one. There are no line numbers on the 4562 I am referencing. If you have only 1 rental property, then there are a total of three 4562 forms in the package. One prints in portrait format and I am *not* referencing that one at all.  That one only gives totals and does not give the breakdown I"m talking about.

The one I'm talking about prints in landscape format and is specifically titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report". It's pictured below. Take note of what I've circled, as your reference to " I do have this set already listed." contradicts your later statement which insinuates you never entered the assets.

In the image, you can see under "depreciation" the initial property entry where the rental property was placed in service on Oct 9, 2001. Then within a month after converting it to a rental, I had to replace the central A/C with a completely new one that was placed in service on Nov 1, 2001.

Then I had to put on a new roof over Christmas, which was completed and place in service on Jan 1, 2002.

 

Then under "amortization" it's easy to figure out that I refinanced the property On Sept 19, 2012. Because I did my refinance with the same original lender, the financing fees from the first original loan are included in the $768 total for the refi loan and get deducted (not depreciated) over 15 years.

4562.png

 

 

Sale of Converted Rental Property

@Carl

 

No problem at all Carl.  I appreciate the help.  I found the form you are talking about.  It clearly shows the building and improvements I placed in service but nothing about amortization so I suspect I never got that piece going (item #1).  That aside my main two questions are related to items #3 and #5.  I now realize I didn’t do it right from the onset but am wondering if there is any recourse as it greatly affects a potential gain I’m hoping to offset.

 

  1. 2006: Bought second property for $400,000 ($8,000 closing costs)
  2. 2014: Converted to rental property (90% rental, 10% personal use)
  3. $25,000 in upgrades pre-rental conversion
  4. $20,000 in upgrades post rental conversion (placed in service and depreciated)
  5. $15,000 in upgrades post rental conversion (never placed in service)
  6. $50,000 in building depreciation claimed since conversion
  7. 2019: Sold second property for $400,000 ($27,000 closing costs)
 
 
Carl
Level 15

Sale of Converted Rental Property

Good deal. Now I"m convinced we're on the same page.  I few things to point out, and then a decision by you on what direction you want to go. My intent is to educate you so that you can make an "informed" decision on what's the best course of action for "you". What I think is best just doesn't matter for your specific situation. It's your property and money - not mine. 🙂

1. First, since you have no amortization this was probably one of those loans where the lender (or someone else such as the seller) paid all of your closing costs. If so, then you would have nothing to amortize/deduct for that. (See first two sentences of #3 below) To somewhat confirm that, for the property itself (and the property only) add together the amounts in the COST and COST (NET OF LAND) columns. If that total exceeds the contracted sales amount as shown on line 100 of the HUD-1 closing statement you received at the closing when you purchased the property in 2006, that pretty much confirms that you did not pay any closing costs.

2. Now on your 90% personal use, please confirm that it was 90% *every* *single* *year* you had the property classified as a rental. As I recall without going back and reading, you stated that you and the family did use it for personal pleasure for a month each year. But I don't recall seeing you specify "every year".  If you did, then the below "reporting sale of rental" will apply - but not perfectly. It's just guidance. Make sure you read "ALL" of the small print on each screen as you work through each individual asset. I'm not absolutely certain, but I "think" you'll be told to report 10% of the sale elsewhere in the program. (I hope not. Last time I dealt with this was over a decade ago. So my memory may be rusty on that.)

3. The $25K in property improvements done "before" the property was placed in service could have been entered either of two ways. Which way doesn't matter. But you "may" have to take that into account when dealing with my item #1 above.

     A. The property improvements could have been entered as a physically separate line item, and they would just have the same in-service date as the property itself.  Those improvements would have the depreciation value in the "Cost (net of land)" column and the "land" column would have a zero in it, or be left blank.

     B. The property improvements could have been included in the cost of the property itself, thus making the amounts in both the "Cost (net of land)" column more than $25K higher than what you paid for it as shown on line 100 of the HUD-1 closing statement.

Since the "pre-conversion to rental" property improvements were done prior to placing the property in service, either A or B above is perfectly fine.

4. These property improvements "should" have an in service date that is "after" the original property was placed in service. If so, and they show a business use percentage, then you're fine.

5. I am assuming the $15K of property improvements here were completed after the last renter moved out, and prior to the sale. That's the only reason I can see why they were never placed in service. Is my assumption correct? If so, then it's still no problems. But they "do" need to be listed in the assets/depreciation section. (They are listed there, if they appear on the 4562 with zero percent business use.) If my assumption on this item is wrong, then please provide details and explain, as it will affect how you will report this sale so it's reported correctly.

7. Just be aware that when you report this sale, you "may or may not" have a taxable gain. Remember, all the depreciation you've taken over the years gets recaptured and taxed in the tax year you sell the property. So your original cost basis of $400,000 will be reduced by the $50,000 of depreciation taken, giving you an adjusted cost basis of $350,000. So that's a $50K gain on the sale. A portion of that will be offset by your closing costs. So this is just a "heads up" to not be surprised when you find you have a taxable gain. In fact, it's almost assured you will if you had 10% personal use every year since you converted it to a rental.

Now here's that guidance I've probably had you drooling for, for a few days now. Remember, since the property was not 100% business use, this guidance "may" seem to start falling apart on you. So the important thing is to read the small print on each screen as you work things through, and have pen/paper with you to take notes, if the program tells you to report something in another section of the program.

Reporting the Sale of Rental Property

If you qualify for the "lived in 2 of last 5 years" capital gains exclusion, then when prompted you WILL indicate that this sale DOES INCLUDE the sale of your main home. For AD MIL personnel who don't qualify because of PCS orders, select this option anyway, because you "MIGHT" qualify for at last a partial exclusion.

Start working through Rental & Royalty Income (SCH E) "AS IF" you did not sell the property. One of the screens near the start will have a selection on it for "I sold or otherwise disposed of this property in  2019". Select it. After you select the "I sold or otherwise disposed of this property in 2019" you continue working it through "as if" you still own it. When you come to the summary screen you will enter all of your rental income and expenses, even it it's zero. Then you MUST work through the "Sale of Assets/Depreciation" section. You must work through each individual asset one at a time to report its disposition (in your case, all your rental assets were sold).

Understand that if more than the property itself is listed in your assets list, then you need to allocate your sales price across all of your assets.  You will only allocate the structure sales price; you will NOT allocate the land sales price, since the land is not a depreciable asset.  Then if you sold this rental at a gain, you must show a gain on all assets, even if that gain is $1. Likewise, if you sold at a loss then you must show a loss on all assets, even if that loss is $1

Basically, when working through an asset you select the option for "I stopped using this asset in 2019" and go from there. Note that you MUST do this for EACH AND EVERY asset listed.

When you finish working through everything listed in the assets section, if you ever at any time you owned this rental you claimed vehicle expenses, then you must also work through the vehicle section and show the disposition of the vehicle. Most likely, your vehicle disposition will be "removed for personal use", as I seriously doubt you sold your vehicle as a part of this rental sale.

message box icon

Get more help

Ask questions and learn more about your taxes and finances.

Post your Question
Manage cookies