turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
turbotax icon
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Close icon
Do you have a TurboTax Online account?

We'll help you get started or pick up where you left off.

Connect with an expert
x
Do you have an Intuit account?

Do you have an Intuit account?

You'll need to sign in or create an account to connect with an expert.

jbsocal
New Member

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Qualified Business Income Deduction is a new law that applies starting 2018.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Okay!  That clears up why I've never been exposed to this option!  Thank you
gwenbanks
New Member

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

I rent out 2 houses, one shows a net profit the other shows a net loss.  Is the house with the net loss still considered QBI deduction?

gwenbanks
New Member

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

I rent out 2 houses, one shows a net profit the other shows a net loss.  Is the house with the net loss still considered for QBI deduction?

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

@gwenbanks If you group the two rentals, the qualified business income would be on the net from the two, assuming you can group them because they are either both residential or both commercial, etc. If you treat them separately, each would be eligible for the QBI deduction if they made a profit and otherwise qualified. In either case, you will need to treat the two consistently unless you have a clear reason not to, and if you take the qualified business income deduction on them it would be on the net of the two, not on the one but not the other, since the qbi deduction considers all businesses.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Not an easy question to answer.

SEC. 162 TRADE OR BUSINESS
The regulations offered ambiguous rules to determine whether a rental real estate activity qualifies as a trade or business for QBI purposes. The final QBI regulations define a trade or business as a Sec. 162 trade or business other than performing services as an employee. Case law provides that a Sec. 162 trade or business entails a profit motive and requires considerable, regular, and continuous activity. A sporadic activity or hobby does not qualify for this purpose. The final QBI regulations offer several factors for analyzing whether a rental real estate activity is a Sec. 162 trade or business:

The type of property rented (commercial versus residential);
The number of properties rented;
The owner's (or the owner's agents') day-to-day involvement;
The types and significance of any ancillary services provided under the lease; and
The terms of the lease (e.g., a net versus a traditional lease and a short-term versus a long-term lease).
The final regulations' preamble also notes that an activity treated as a Sec. 199A trade or business should also be treated consistently under other Code sections. For example, a tenancy in common renting real estate as a Sec. 199A trade or business should also be treated as an entity separate from its owners under Regs. Sec. 301.7701-1(a)(2). The preamble also says a factor in the appropriateness of treating a rental activity as a trade or business under Sec. 199A is whether the taxpayer complies with the requirements of Sec. 6041 (i.e., files required reporting forms, such as Form 1099-MISC, Miscellaneous Income). These factors encourage a case-by-case analysis. Rental activities with no active management likely do not qualify.

 

but then the IRS issued safe harbor criteria

 

PROPOSED SAFE HARBOR
The IRS issued Notice 2019-07 concurrently with the final QBI regulations. It provides proposed safe-harbor requirements for a rental real estate activity to qualify as a trade or business for QBI purposes. Note that the safe harbor does not need to be satisfied if the rental activity is otherwise considered a Sec. 162 trade or business 

carefully read its provisions, notably:

a) Separate books and records must be maintained for the rental real estate activity;
b) For tax years beginning prior to Jan. 1, 2023, at least 250 hours of rental services must be performed each year with respect to the rental activity by owners, employees, agents, and/or independent contractors;
Contemporaneous records of services performed must be maintained for tax years beginning on or after Jan. 1, 2019;
c) Real estate rented under a triple net lease in which the tenant or lessee pays for taxes, fees, insurance, and maintenance is not eligible for the safe harbor;
d) Real estate activities are not considered a trade or business if real property is used as a residence as defined in Sec. 280A (i.e., it is used personally by an owner for a number of days that exceeds the greater of 14 days or 10% of the number of days during the year in which the property is rented at a fair rental); and
e) A statement signed under penalties of perjury must be attached to the taxpayer's tax return that indicates the safe harbor has been satisfied.

 

real estate professionals would meet the trade or business criteria because this is where they generate most of their income and spend most of their time. they own numerous properties or a few large commercial properties with multiple tenants.

 

I'm of the opinion you would have to meet the safe harbor criteria to classify your 2 properties as qualifying for QBI. but as noted you can group the two properties to see if you meet the criteria rather than looking at each separately. 

 

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

I thought QBI only apply to some cases not all. I always considered my income from rental a type of investment vs. business. Is it correct? 

If not all rentals are business type, why the business usage on "Tell us more about this rental asset" on 2021 Turbo is required field? How may I skip the step?

AliciaP1
Expert Alumni

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

The QBI rules were more specifically defined in 2021 regarding rental income.  If you have answered the prompt questions correctly for your situation in the step-by-step process in TurboTax, it is calculating the amount correctly.

 

@lwang1

**Say "Thanks" by clicking the thumb icon in a post
**Mark the post that answers your question by clicking on "Mark as Best Answer"

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

I check marked "The item was sold" on page "Tell us more about this rental asset". The problem is that I can't skip the portion of "Have you used this item 100% for the business since acquired it". My asset is an Investment type. I also went through following steps in the section of "To enter your rental sale under the rental section" on

https://ttlc.intuit.com/community/investments-and-rental-properties/discussion/where-put-sales-proce....

I got lost on the Step 16, #3...I don't see how I can get there. The "business use" part blocked me.

I am quite confident all prior steps correctly entered. I was able to enter Proceeds, etc. once but not seeing it on the summary at all. I can't find where this entry is now. Could it be a bug? 

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Generally if you identify as having a qualified business activity renting both homes, the net income would be treated as qualified business income, so if one has a loss, that will probably lower your QBI.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

As you might guess from the long reply in this thread, because this is a new deduction, there are some aspects not fully sorted out. Whether the rental activity of a person with one or two homes is QBI can be disputed. There are some "safe harbor" provisions, but you might choose to identify your rental as either QBI or not without using those "safe harbor" provisions.
Of course, if you don't take the QBI deduction, you won't have any problem as the IRS never disputes extra taxes, but generally you are safe if it is a business activity.

When is it not a business activity? For one, when you don't make money. If you don't usually make money (e.g. from rents) then you are assumed not to be doing it as a business. But then you wouldn't need a QBI, since it only applies to your profit.
There may be other situations. Investments are generally not managed by the investors, unlike businesses. So if you own shares in an investment, and just get a statement every year showing whether it made money and what taxes you owe, you may not be running your own business. On the other hand, if you're choosing tenants, collecting rents, and contracting for services (like installing new carpet, et al) then you likely are running a business, even if you think of it as an "investment property." That may just mean it's not your second home. This may be true even if you spend less than half your time or 750 hours a year managing the property or properties.

Remember that TT (Turbo) only approximates the description of blanks on the tax forms from the IRS it is trying to fill out. Ultimately we are each responsible for how we fill out the tax forms, regardless of how TT phrases the questions in "interview" mode. So if you have doubt about the questions, answer them the way you think makes sense, then check the forms to be sure you agree with how they're filled out! TT is still not responsible for how we fill out the forms in the eyes of the IRS, we are.
While TT sometimes references IRS instructions, the IRS publishes its own instructions and forms, and these are the basis for how we pay tax, not TT's best efforts to bridge the gap.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

If you sell a rental property, you fill out a separate set of forms (via the interview, I know) to report the income from the sale. So when it asks if the property was sold, TT is trying to find out if you need to fill out another set of forms for the sale of the property, not just those for the use of the property. 

SETTING THAT ASIDE,....

If the property was not used PERSONALLY, then it is 100% business use. 

One situation: It wasn't always rented, but I never used it personally. Even if I stayed overnight there, it was only to take care of the property for tenants, not to enjoy it myself. This is 100% business use, whether you call it an "investment" or a "rental property" or a "beach house."

Another situation: I have used it some of the time personally and some of the time I rent it out to others. This is NOT 100% business use. A portion of the use is personal and a portion is for business. In this case, expenses have to be apportioned between business (investment, rental) and personal use. If I use it 10% of the year personally, and I put in new carpet, only 90% of the new carpet is a depreciable expense on the rental property (as a business, investment, rental or whatever you call it.) The other 10% is like putting carpet in my own house, not a cost of doing the business, investment, rental property reported on Schedule E. For instance, I have a house in the woods and it is available for rent in season--10 weeks of the year. The rest of the time it is closed up. If I use it personally 1 week of the year, that is probably 10% personal use and 90% an investment property, rental business, or whatever language TT or I use to describe that profit-motivated activity. Of course, if the week I use it is the week the Master's golf tournament takes place across my back fence, the question of whether I am only using it personally 10% might be debatable, but that's a more unusual situation.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Hello Spino,

Thanks for detailed explanations! Here are my understanding from your messages:

1. "this is a new deduction" for 2021 which means a rental that once considered "investment" now is treated as "business" if it passes 100% usage test, isn't it?

2. The "investment" type is no longer used to describe rental property for the tax purposes? A rental property could only be personal use OR business use during a described period.

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

I need clarification for QBI. 

Although all rentals are considered as business if they were used 100% as rental. However, this may not necessary mean they are eligible for QBI unless they were registered as such business that can be identified. Is it correct?

MarilynG1
Expert Alumni

We rent out two homes. Would income from these rentals be considered "qualified business income" ?

Yes, Rental Activity can qualify for the Qualified Business Income deduction. 

 

However, a home that is used for both personal and rental purposes during the year does not qualify (such as a vacation home).

 

A Rental Property that is never used for personal purposes is considered 100% Business Use. 

 

Click this link for more info on Rental Property and QBI.

 

 

**Say "Thanks" by clicking the thumb icon in a post
**Mark the post that answers your question by clicking on "Mark as Best Answer"
message box icon

Get more help

Ask questions and learn more about your taxes and finances.

Post your Question
Manage cookies