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Pensions not included in 1040 Line 4a? But is included in Line 4b. Line 4b should not be > 4a. Line 4a should be all 1099-R B1, Line 4b sum of Box 2a.

Forum|Forum|7 years ago
June 8, 2019
62 replies
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Appears only 1099-R with IRA Box 7 checked are being picked up one Line 4a. This appears to be not consistent with IRS instructions for Line 4a which appear to want the sum of all 1099-R Box 1 (regardless of IRA, pension or annuity). TT error appears to be a transition error from the old 1040 method of handling separate lines for IRA's and pensions. TT worksheets have not been updated to 2018.

TurboTax Deluxe Windows

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If you look at the 1040 worksheet, you see that TurboTax is still separating IRA's from pensions and annuities, even though the 1040 no longer does that. If you have distributions from multiple payers, they are doing it wrong. Here is what the new IRS 1040 instructions say: "More than one distribution. If you (or your spouse if filing jointly) received more than one distribution, figure the taxable amount of each distribution and enter the total of the taxable amounts on line 4b. Enter the total amount of those distributions on line 4a." So, if more than one, the total of ALL distributions should appear on 4a. I think Intuit has been told about this problem.

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iamwhoiam

Level 5

@cwqjr BUT it also says that if you received more than one IRA distribution (I take that as meaning more than one 1099-R for those distributions) then the total of those distributions should be in 4a. I don't think that TT has ever done this, though, and when there was a line 15a they just left that blank even for multiple distributions as long as the gross IRA distribution was equal to the taxable distribution.
I think that it's just confusing this year and it was better when pensions/annuities and IRAs were separated. It makes more sense logically that the total of all gross distributions from pensions, annuities and IRAs should be on line 4a.

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cwqjr

Level 2

@avian99 I'm just going to go with what TT has done and sleep soundly. If I get dinged then supposedly TT will back me up. I've used TT for probably 20 years without much difficulty. But 2018 was the first year I've had IRA distributions. Thank goodness they changed (and simplified) the forms for this year!

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iamwhoiam

Level 5

@cwqjr LOL...who knows is right. Nobody seems to know. I talked to an IRS agent and she said that she would include all the distributions on 4a. However can't override the amount and electronically file. Can do the $1 trick that @prtaylor56 did where $1 was added to the gross in a worksheet, can uncheck the IRA/SEP/SIMPLE box that someone else did, or can paper file. As for being simplified, I was told that there have been more calls this year to TT than in the past because of the new form but then it is new. I think the combination of 15 a/b and 16 a/b have caused more confusion rather than simplifying things. Also I have more schedules attached to the Federal because of this "simplification". I've also found several questions and answers on other forums regarding lines 4a and 4b due to 4a<4b.

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iamwhoiam

Level 5

@cwqjr I might wind up doing the same thing. I don't want to change things that shouldn't be changed; just wish there was a way to override the amount in 4a and still e-file. It's interesting that some tax software programs include all of the 1099R gross distributions in 4a. I don't think this would be a difficult thing for the TT programmers to fix. Probably two lines of code, give or take.

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fastweb01

Level 2

Just out of curiosity...

Of all of you that have experienced the "4a < 4b" error, how many of you did not actually buy the software and instead you are using a pirated copy of the TurboTax software...??

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fastweb01

Level 2

Please review the following web link for another perspective on this "error":

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/">https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/</a>

And enter solution number: zero - zero - zero - zero - nine - seven - three - four - five

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fastweb01

Level 2

Please review the following web link for another perspective on this "error":

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/">https://support.cch.com/kb/solution/</a>

And enter solution number: zero - zero - zero - zero - nine - seven - three - four - five

.

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Anonymous

Answer

If you look at the 1040 worksheet, you see that TurboTax is still separating IRA's from pensions and annuities, even though the 1040 no longer does that. If you have distributions from multiple payers, they are doing it wrong. Here is what the new IRS 1040 instructions say: "More than one distribution. If you (or your spouse if filing jointly) received more than one distribution, figure the taxable amount of each distribution and enter the total of the taxable amounts on line 4b. Enter the total amount of those distributions on line 4a." So, if more than one, the total of ALL distributions should appear on 4a. I think Intuit has been told about this problem.

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iamwhoiam

Level 5

@d2richland  So I probably should keep the IRA/SEP box unchecked.  It doesn't change anything for me except the amount in line 4a.  It's too bad that this hasn't been resolved but seems that TT doesn't think it's an issue.
In addition to the 4a-4b mess, TT also added forms that I didn't need and this was before I unchecked that box.  Added the business expense form (don't have any of those), HSA form (don't have that) and Alternative Minimum Tax Credit form. I don't know why that happened but I deleted the forms.  Didn't change my refund amount.
Has anyone talked to a rep from the IRS to get more info?  Have people received refunds with 4b being greater than 4a?  It's confusing.

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zbaba4

Level 2

I've been struggling with this issue for 3 days (and 3 calls to TT) and just found this discussion. Most have figured out how TT might have messed it up, but like others I am ready to file so I want my 1040 to look right. To do that just uncheck the box 7 (IRA/SEP?SIMPLE) on the IRA 1099R data entry or import. Then the 1040 looks right. The IRS only has your 1099R from your IRA manager,, not the TT data entry, so thats OK.

But in order to prove to skeptical (or less knowledgeable) TT support that there really is a problem, I created a 1099R for an IRA, box 7 checked, and made the gross amount different from the taxable amount. Form 1040 picks up the gross amount in box 4b, clearly a real error regardless of interpretation of IRA instructions.

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Bamboo11_2

Level 4

That's one option if it doesn't mess up something else on the return. Another option would be to overstate the gross distribution by $1 but leave the taxable amount as shown on the 1099R. At least that might appear to be a rounding error but should be more accurate than TT. Or create two 1099s. As you say the IRS doesn't see what you had to do to get the numbers right.

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sr1185

Level 2

I think the problem with the wrong amount on the 1040 in line 4a maybe because something is missing one the “Form 1099-R Summary”, which feeds to the “1040 Worksheet”. There is no line item in the “IRA Distribution”, boxes 1 – 5 on page 1 of the summary that directs “Gross Distribution” to line 4a like it does in the “Pension and Annuities” section, under Gross, line 25, “Gross distribution transferred to Form 1040 4a”! As prtaylor56 has indicated "the problem is caused by a broken link in the "1040 Wks." Just confirming.

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