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Level 2
posted Jan 2, 2021 1:25:07 PM

1099-R Box 5 exceeds Box 1

I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  Box 2a is blank. 

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20 Replies
Level 4
Jan 2, 2021 1:34:18 PM

2A is the amount that you owe taxes on and that should be blank for a ROTH.    There are many things that can be included in Box 5.  What they included in your personal Box 5 is something that your financial institution needs to explain to you. 

Level 15
Jan 2, 2021 1:46:55 PM

What year are you doing - 2019 or 2020?     2020 1099-R's have not even been sent out yet - do you have your 1099-R?   What code is in box 7?

 

For a designated Roth (401(k) Roth) box 5 will be the amount of your contributions that are included in the box 1 amount so it is not possible to include more than the total of box 1.    If box 5 is actually more then box 1 then the 1099-R is incorrect and must be corrected by the issuer.

 

In most circumstances a 401(k) Roth will not have a blank box 2a - again what is the box 7 code?

 

 

Level 2
Jan 2, 2021 1:59:01 PM

Box 7 code is B8.  It was for 2019.

I did contact the "payor" about the form, but they are saying they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a.

Level 4
Jan 2, 2021 2:15:08 PM

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1099r.pdf 
Box 5. Generally, this shows the employee’s investment in the
contract (after-tax contributions), if any, recovered tax free this year;
the portion that’s your basis in a designated Roth account; the part of
premiums paid on commercial annuities or insurance contracts
recovered tax free; the nontaxable part of a charitable gift annuity; or
the investment in a life insurance contract reportable under section
6050Y. This box doesn’t show any IRA contributions. If the amount
shown is your basis in a designated Roth account, the year you first
made contributions to that account may be entered in box 11.




 

Level 15
Jan 2, 2021 2:58:31 PM


@Inugasuki wrote:

Box 7 code is B8.  It was for 2019.

I did contact the "payor" about the form, but they are saying they don't show a negative amount for Box 2a.


Box 2a can never be negative.

 

Code B8 indicates a corrective distribution from an excess contribution.      Box 2a should have the excess contribution and earnings distributed less any designated Roth contributions, so box 2a could be zero or blank.  Box 5 should only contain the amount of basis (your contributions) being returned in box 1.    Perhaps they mistakenly entered ALL of your past Designated Roth contributions in aggregate rather than nothing or just the amount of contributions that are included in the box 1 amount.   In any event box 5 (part of box 1) can never be more then the whole of box 1.

Level 2
Jan 3, 2021 6:10:29 AM

Thanks again for your reply!

I have sent them an email.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 6:39:28 AM

@Inugasuki - can you please restate?

 

which is it? 

 

"I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  B

ox 2a is blank." 

 

"t

hey don't show a negative amount for Box 2a

."

 

 

Level 2
Jan 3, 2021 6:59:05 AM

Box 2a is blank.  Box 5 amount exceeds Box 1 amount.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 7:08:47 AM

@Inugasuki 

 

Are you absolutely sure this was not a ROTH-IRA ?  I'm not sure a person would/could have an overcontribution to a ROTH-401k, unless they had multiple employers in that year and contributed considerable amounts to 401k plans at both employers.

 

A ROTH-401k and ROTH-IRA may be handled entirely differently, especially if you pulled all your funds out of a specific ROTH-IRA account that lost money.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 8:25:25 AM


@NCperson wrote:

@Inugasuki - can you please restate?

 

which is it? 

 

"I have Roth 401(k), and Form 1099-R is showing Box 5 exceeding Box 1.  What does this mean?  B

ox 2a is blank." 

 

"t

hey don't show a negative amount for Box 2a

."

 

 


I am assuming that there was a loss in the Designated Roth which would explain a zero or blank box 2a.   A loss cannot be shown with a negative number.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 8:33:12 AM


@Inugasuki wrote:

Box 2a is blank.  Box 5 amount exceeds Box 1 amount.


Are you getting a error with that?

 

The instructions say that for a designated Roth "Enter the employee's contributions, designated Roth contributions, or insurance premiums that the employee may recover tax free this year (even if they exceed the box 1 amount)."

 

@dmertz ???

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 8:36:18 AM


@SteamTrain wrote:

@Inugasuki 

 

Are you absolutely sure this was not a ROTH-IRA ?  I'm not sure a person would/could have an overcontribution to a ROTH-401k, unless they had multiple employers in that year and contributed considerable amounts to 401k plans at both employers.

 

A ROTH-401k and ROTH-IRA may be handled entirely differently, especially if you pulled all your funds out of a specific ROTH-IRA account that lost money.


The code "8B" in box 7 says that it is a Designated Roth return of excess contributions (unless a financial institution made a huge error and the code should have been "8J" for a Roth IRA).

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 8:49:38 AM

Ahh good point...

 

Still, thinking about having multiple employer ROTH 401k over contributions, where the employee contributed to a ROTH 401k at the second employer, and exceeded yearly limit:

 

......couldn't the employee in that case, remove all of the holdings in that particular ROTH-401k ...but IF the funds lost money during that time period, wouldn't the 1099-R show box 5 being greater than box 1?     

 

(not sure if that would be allowed with partial pullout )

Level 2
Jan 3, 2021 8:52:49 AM

This is my ROTH 401(k).  I believe my employer failed ADP test.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 9:12:55 AM


@Inugasuki wrote:

This is my ROTH 401(k).  I believe my employer failed ADP test.


If this was a Distributions Under Employee Plans Compliance Resolution System (EPCRS) for a ADP test then I believe that box 5 should be blank and the box 7  would have a code "E" only.

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 9:13:10 AM

This code B8 Form 1099-R appears to me to be correct except that box 2a should have a zero in it.  Box 2a seems to have been left blank by the preparer to indicate that none of the distribution is taxable, but that's not really proper if the taxable amount is truly known to be zero, which it is in this case.

 

What this From 1099-R is saying is that, due to failing ADP testing, there was an excess contribution of the amount shown in box 5.  However, the investments in the account lost value in the interim, so the amount distributed, shown in box 1, was less that the amount originally contributed.  The amount in box 5 simply represents the amount by which the contribution basis in the Designated Roth Account has been reduced by this return of excess contribution.

 

To satisfy TurboTax, you'll need to enter a zero in box 2a.

Level 2
Jan 3, 2021 9:22:41 AM

Since this is ROTH, I understand the amount in box 5 was taxed as part of my W-2 wages.  As "Return of ADP Excess," I received a check in the amount of Box 1, which is less than the amount in Box 5.  Would it be possible to claim a loss for the difference?

Level 15
Jan 3, 2021 9:26:57 AM

No, this loss cannot be claimed as a deduction.  That might have been possible before 2018 or after 2025, but for 2018 through 2025 miscellaneous deductions subject to the 2%-of-AGI floor have been suspended by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017.

Level 2
Jan 17, 2021 1:08:25 PM

I was able to confirm that the investment lost value and that the excess amount (Box 5 over Box 1) represents a negative taxable amount.  Can I claim a short-term capital loss then?

Level 15
Jan 17, 2021 1:51:21 PM

To recognize a loss relative to your basis in Roth 401(k) contributions it would have to be claimed as a miscellaneous deduction subject to the 2% of AGI floor, but miscellaneous deductions subject to the 2% of AGI floor have been suspended by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 for tax years 2018 through 2025, so no, there is no way to recognize the loss.  Distributions from retirement accounts are treated as ordinary income and are not subject to capital gains treatment.