And this is why you NEVER amend (not superseded ... that is a business return designation only)  a return before the original return was fully processed ... that was the reason for NOT letting you amend too soon.    If this is for a personal return then you should have mailed in a form 1040X (not an original 1040 with red letters on top) so although the check you sent was cashed right away  it is highly unlikely the new 1040 will ever be looked at ... if it is it will be months from now.  

Now if you did mail in a 1040X was the amount on line 18 the original refund you did get ?    If so the IRS will eventually process the amended return and all will be right.  

If you sent in a 1040 by accident then WAIT for the IRS to ask what that payment was for ... only then should you respond with the correct 1040X form ... please don't jump the gun again and make things much worse.  

Thanks for the info!!

The doc I read mentioned for my situation to do the Superseded return. I thought doing it the same day would replace the EReturn.

It is a personal return and I used the 1040 not the 1040x. I used TurboTax to generate the corrected return. Didn't see anything about a 1040x, don't know if Turbotax even has that form.

Of course TT has the 1040X ... you even mentioned the 1040X was not allowed because they were updating the program and the IRS requested that it be taken offline for a while to keep folks from doing exactly what you did.  The "superseded" return will most likely be ignored but time will tell.   And the return you MAILED in will take months to even see the light of day ... there was no possible way for it to possibly stop the original return in the processing que.  

Didn't know the 1040x is the Amended Return. Never heard of that form until you mentioned it.

I'll wait til I hear something from the IRS as you suggest.

I have seen several of your replies in different places admonishing the filing of a superseding 1040 return.  While I do understand the temporary confusion and delays these may cause, there are cases (which I won’t go into here) where filing a superseding return before the filing deadline would be the preferred method over filing an amended return after the filing deadline.  One can find online articles by the National Taxpayer Advocate Service, an organization within the IRS itself, (as well as articles on other reputable financial sites), on how to file a superseding personal (i.e., 1040) return.  The problem that arises is that unfortunately the IRS agents processing the returns don’t know how to handle them; that is, there a disconnect between the advice given to taxpayers and the training of the agents processing the returns.  

While it is clear that a mailed superseded return would almost never be received in time to intercept an “erroneous refund” from an originally filed electronic return, eventually the superseding return (if postmarked before the filing deadline) should completely replace the original return and the taxpayer shouldn’t be charged interest if the correct payment was made when the superseding return was filed and the erroneous refund was timely returned.  It does take time to sort out, so it’s something you absolutely want to try to avoid if possible.  But, if taxpayers are being advised that an option is available, they shouldn’t be penalized or chastised for trying to responsibly follow the revision procedures just because agents aren’t trained on how to process these.  One can find case law affirming the validity of superseding 1040 returns.  These past two years have just been so overwhelming that patience and understanding is needed all the way around - by taxpayers and the IRS … as the IRS should continuously strive to improve clear communications and agent training.

wxwx

Thanks for your post. I did nothing wrong using the Superseded return. All the Doc I found had no mention it was only for businesses and seeing what you pointed out, it's also for individual returns. Still haven't heard anything from the IRS.

Thanks again!!

The IRS defines superseded returns in IRM 21.6.7.4.10 (10-01-2021) that does say individual tax returns superseded before the due date of the return.

Chapter 21.6 of the IRM is Individual Tax Returns - not business returns.

[quote]

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@cust25yr wrote:

Still haven't heard anything from the IRS.

 

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The IRS is still backlogged because of staff shortages and COVID.    They are very slow to open and process mail.

Once it gets entered into the processing system they will find two returns that will "red flag" both for human processing.  Expect anything that requires a human to do at the IRS to take many-many months (it took the IRS until mid 2021 to get late 2019 tax returns entered - well over a year).

Thanks!!

Finally got a letter from IRS this week. They said they recalculated one of the forms. They didn't include the form or say how much I owed if anything. They provided a payment voucher form but no amount was on it, only "if I need to send a payment use this form." I tried 15 times to call the IRS and everytime it says "we're maxed out call later or next business day." So I went through the process of creating an IRS account and was able to see I owe the amount they sent me incorrectly plus interest. The reason for the Superseded Return was to prevent them from sending the incorrect refund.  Since the incorrect return I E-Filed had an incorrect AGI, that same AGI shows on the 2020 Tax Return Transcript in my account. That AGI could be important for other tax benefits I received in 2020.

So my question to the experts here...should I just pay the amount they show in my account which includes interest I shouldn't have to pay if they used the Superseded I sent in and they cashed the check I included, and hope the incorrect AGI doesn't cause me a problem or send them a description of what happened, include a copy of the Superseded return and ask them to recalculate the AGI?

Since they had my Superseded return, check, along with the original incorrect E-return but still used the wrong incorrect one, do I risk they really mess things up, drag things out and charge me more interest?

Thanks!!!

@cust25yr - it;s really hard to follow what you wrote; I am very sorry.  

the best course of action is to NEVER amend a return until the IRS has settled the original return.  It risks too much confusion. 

If the SUSPERCEDED return is an amendment (you didn't send in a whole new return did you???), they should pull the check out of the envelope and post it to your account (how long ago did you mail the check?)

At this point DO NOTHING.  Wait for that 2nd check to clear.  Wait for the Amendement to clear.  Do not try guessing what the iRS is going to do, it's just going to make the situation worse.  Let the dust settle!

Thanks for writing to this thread. It may seem somewhat complicated but as others mentioned I did nothing wrong with sending in a Superseded Return. Turbo Tax changed one of their options I'd used for many years. I selected the wrong option and thought the refund I was getting was due to the pandemic stimulus. Within an hour I realized it was incorrect and I found the correct option. It was too early to file an amended return and I found plenty of doc describing the Superseded Return was what I should do and it would be looked at instead of the original E-Filed incorrect one. I wanted to prevent them from sending me a refund when I actually owed money. When I sent in the Superseded Return, yes, the entire return on paper with "Superseded Return" in red at the top of the first page as instructions said, with a payment back in April 2021, it was only an hour previously sent the E-File. A few weeks later I saw on my bank statement IRS both cashed my check and issued me a refund. So they had the Superseded return but decided not to use it.

Everyone here suggested not to do anything until IRS contacted me which just happened this week, over a year later. As mentioned they didn't include the form they changed or the amount I owe. Only looking at my IRS account did I see the amount I owe along with the wrong AGI entered. The incorrect AGI could be a problem because some tax benefits are based on that but haven't heard of any problems as of yet.

The letter mentions I can contact them if I don't think their changes are correct. I can't see what changes they made as they didn't send me anything. The form they changed doesn't appear in my account. Also the letter says if I don't contact them, they will start collection proceedings.

So my question is, do I just pay what I owe and hope the other tax benefits based on the AGI don't become a problem or explain what happened to them and tell them they used the wrong return and ask them to correct it? I do agree I do owe the money as they sent me a refund I shouldn't have received.

Thanks

There was noting wrong with sending in a superceded return EXCEPT that the IRS would process the original return way before they could process the second return.  So them sending out the original refund is to be expected  as is   them cashing the check for the balance due on the paper filed return.  Eventually they will get around to processing this "superseded" return and pairing it up with the payment you sent and send you out a notice asking for the all or part of the original refund to be sent back ... please wait for the IRS to catch up in this matter and expect it to take 6 months to a year to process everything.

Next time wait for the original return to fully process  before sending in an amended return or a superseded one as you can see not waiting is causing confusion. 

@Critter-3 - only question - if @cust25yr knows he owes money on the 2020 tax year, why not send in the money now? He knows he is obligated to it and does not expect the IRS to settle the Supercede in a way that he doesn't owe it. 

1) if I understand correctly, the original return had a refund on it; and the IRS send it to @cust25yr 

2) then the Supercede required a payment, so @cust25yr send in that check to be whole with the liability to the IRS

3) in essense, why wouldn't @cust25yr send 1) back to the IRS now? his account shows this (or a near enough number) as outstanding. .

Today I went into my IRS account to pay what I owe and to my shock and disappointment, they jacked up the amount another $45. What are they going to do, jack it up every week?

So they sent me a notice they modified one of my forms and a voucher with no amount due or listed. They didn't send a copy of the modified form. After that part it says if I don't contact them  agreeing to the changes in 60 days they'll start collection proceedings against me. Am I supposed to be a mind reader? Agree to something they didn't send? Did they expect a blank check since they didn't state what I owed?

What a rotten low down bunch. They're charging me interest on something they shouldn't have sent out in the first place. According to all the doc I read before sending the Superseded return, they should have replaced the original return with the Superseded one. But instead they processed the incorrect one then over a year later they did something and I'm to wait another 6 mo to a year for them to look at the Superseded one.

I just made an e-payment through my IRS account for the original amount they shouldn't have sent me and I'll send them a letter that they mentioned I should do.  Can't call as their lines are so jammed up can't even get on the wait list.

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Superceeded paper returns are taking just as long as amended returns to process which is 6 to 9 months or longer (which is what you should have done to begin with after paying the original balance due).   Now all you can do is wait for the IRS to eventually process the secondary return when they may or may not refund excess fees assesed. 

I appreciate your comment.

The reason I didn't wait for the Amended return option, I e-filed in April. 2021 2020 IRS moved the filing deadline to July 15, 3 months later. You have to wait til after the filing deadline to do the Amended return. The Superseded return is supposed to replace whatever return was previously filed, in my case 1 hour before. In addition, no waiting til after filling deadline.  A reasonable person would believe the incorrect return would be replaced with the Superseded one. The Superseded return is supposed to be for Exactly this situation. I was trying to prevent IRS from issuing me a refund. They issued the refund in May, way before the filing deadline of July 15.

IRS had both returns and as proof, they both issued the refund and cashed the check attached payment for the Superseded return at the same time. They did not replace the e-file with the Superseded return as is supposed to happen

Even with the Amended return, they would have issued a refund and probably the outcome would have been the same.

Note: I corrected the year above from 2020 to 2021. Sorry.

Ok ... first the superceeded return  (that had to be mailed in)   takes months to process and since it is so rare for a personal return to be superceeded (since amending is the most common way to change a return)  it is very possible that the data input operator at the IRS  simply thought it was a duplicate return and put it in the trash.   And an amended return can be filed anytime after the original return was filed although it is best to wait  for the original return to be fully processed first.  So you did not have to wait until July to amend the return.   At this late date, since you are talking about a 2019 return, I highly suggest you check the return transcript to see what the IRS has on file for you  and if the "superceeded" return has not been registered yet then file the proper amendment instead now.  

Thanks again for your response.

It was not a 2019 return but a 2020. I filed it Mid April 2021. I only received a letter from last day of June, 2022.

That's really scary they have a paper return with LARGE RED LETTERS at the top SUPERSEDED RETURN (as IRS Doc instructed) gets thrown in the trash. WOW!!! What type of people there can't distinguish large red letters "Superseded" on them? 2 returns, one they refund and the other with a check attached that they cashed and they don't wonder why the paper one has a check attached and large red letters?

No, I wasn't allowed to submit an Amended Return until after the filing deadline, July 15. Turbo Tax doesn't allow it and I thought the IRS rules were the same. Since it's 1 year and several months later I can't submit an amended return at least through Turbo Tax. It made no sense to wait 3 months to submit an Amended return when I could send a Superseded return 1hr after the mistake. No reasonable person would think an agent with a return with large red letters on it and a check attached would throw it out or ignore it when the rules are they are supposed to use it instead when it says Superseded Return at the top. The incorrect return isn't even supposed to be processed if they have both, which they did.

I looked at the transcript for my 2020 return and didn't see anything that mentioned Superseded. The AGI shown is from the incorrect e-filed return. Where would it say Superseded in the transcript?

Thanks

LOL ... it will never say superceeded on the transcript  and even if the paper was on fire the data input operator either  didn't understand the word and trashed it as a duplicate  OR   it is still sitting in a pile somewhere still waiting to be processed.  Either way your only practical choice if you want this to be corrected   is to file an amended return before it is too late to file it. 

I'm contemplating trying to do a superceding return now in the wake of the student loan forgiveness announcement.  But I'm concerned from what I'm reading here that it may not work?  In my situation, spouse and I file separate timely 6-month automatic extension for the 2021 return, so the original due date for us is October 15, 2022, which hasn't come yet and e-filing is still open.   Spouse, however, already filed a married filing separately return and got a refund, while I haven't filed anything yet.  The superceding return intended here is to change this to a marriage filing jointly return, and there will be an additional refund due.  Will e-filing a MFJ even work, or does it have to be a paper return mailed?  Will they just figure out how to reduce the refund by the amount they already paid, or (if mailing) should I include correspondence to explain what we're doing?   I don't want this processed as a 1040X amended return (albeit one filed before the extension due date) because that is usually handled as a request for an account adjustment, not a return filing, and it will leave me on record with no return filed.  And I don't think the student loan forgiveness program is going to be smart enough to consider eligibility based on amended returns, which can be filed up to 3 years after the due date...   Comments?

If you will change from MFS to a joint return with a spouse who has already filed then  the spouse's filed return must be AMENDED not superceded.  It cannot be efiled due to the change in filing status  and since you will have an additional refund you have 3 years to amend the original return.  Amending the spouse return to add you  WILL report a return filed in your name ... why ever would you think it would not ?   Just be aware that amended returns are taking 6 months to a year to process so patience will be needed. 

Of course you could just file your own return now and  amend one of them later to marry up the 2 returns ... again you have 3 years to do so ... don't be in a rush... it will take time for this loan forgiveness to happen. 

"If you will change from MFS to a joint return with a spouse who has already filed then the spouse's filed return must be AMENDED not superceded."

The idea of a superceding return is to replace the original return with another original return filed before the due date.  Indeed, the regulations quoted earlier here seem to state that all amended returns filed before the due date must be processed as a superceding return anyway.  With respect to a MFJ superceding a MFS, does it perhaps matter which name is listed first?

"Amending the spouse return to add you WILL report a return filed in your name ... why ever would you think it would not ?"

Because it doesn't and I've already been in that pickle in tax year 2017.  Amended returns are not authorized by Congress.  All IRS can do with them is perform account adjustments to issue refunds or send bills, etc.   The Tax Court refers to IRS acceptance of amended returns as, "an act of administrative grace."  Superceding returns, on the other hand, are considered a totally different situation.  When a MFJ amended return is received where only one spouse filed a MFS, what they actually do is copy the one MFS return, as originally filed, to be the original filing for the other spouse too, then perform the usual amended return account adjustments.   While that happens to also achieve my student loan forgiveness eligibility goal here, it does create some major confusions for third parties if you need to use tax return filings to prove annual income, so I don't suggest it.  It also takes IRS a long time to process, as you mentioned, since amended returns are a manual process while original filings are rather automated.

@cparke3 - can we step back and slow down? 

<<And I don't think the student loan forgiveness program is going to be smart enough to consider eligibility based on amended returns, which can be filed up to 3 years after the due date..>>

1) what was the motivation to file separate in the first place? That may help us understand why you now want to file joint.  

2) what about the loan foregiveness program is now motivating you to want to go back and file joint?

From what I have read from reliable sources (NY Times)

1) the foregiveness will be based on your 2020 or 2021 incomes. (so joint income under $250,000 is elgible- and maybe that is why you want to go Joint - one makes more than $125K and the other makes a lot less than that)

2) if you are on a repayment plan  where you already provided your tax return to the Loan Servicer, they will use that to determine if you are eligible for the Relief.

3) Otherwise, they were will a form you will have to fill out stating your income and it will be a 'trust me' because the Department of Education can not access the IRS records by law.