TurboTax released Form 2210 on February 26. Since I was waiting on that form to e-file, I immediately printed my return to do a final review. The numbers in Part IV, lines 20 through 26 for columns (c) and (d) were incorrect. I had a net overpayment in column (a) which was correctly shown on line 26 of column (a). The overpayment carried to line 20 of column (b). However, column (b) is kind of “not applicable” this year due to the IRS allowing people until 7/15 to make both first and second quarter payments. Anyway, the overpayment did not carry down to line 26 of column (b) and therefore did not carry to line 20 of column (c). Because the net overpayment did not carry to column (c), all the numbers in column (c) and (d) were incorrect (it actually showed a net underpayment on line 25 when, in fact, I was overpaid). Surprisingly, it still calculated no penalty as it should have.
I tried overriding line 26, column (b) with the correct number and then all the other number corrected themselves. Unfortunately, you cannot e-file when you have an override. I have reported the problem to TurboTax and they referred the issue to their Tech Support people. Hopefully, they will resolve this quickly. In the interim, you may want to source your own numbers in Part IV, lines 20 through 26 to see if they are correct before you e-file.
I am having the same problem with Part IV of form 2210 as Thomas S. Form 2210 has not been updated to recognize that only columns (a), (c) and (d) are in use for 2020 because of the deadline changes made for estimated taxes in 2020 due to COVID-19. In my case, line 26 of column (a) should be carried over to line 20 column (c) not line 20 of column (b). We waited weeks and weeks for this form to be available and now we cannot file because the form has not being updated correctly. Step up your game TurboTax!
Same problem for me. It is H&R Block next year. Erroneous calculations and tax forms = lost business for TurboTax.
I can confirm that H&R Block 2020 handles form 2210, Part IV correctly. Plus it is cheaper than TurboTax.
Thomas, same problem here. Spent a lot of minutes yesterday on the phone with TT "tax expert" until the problem was understood. A job ticket was filed for the software engineers to resolve. Maybe, just maybe, an update to correct the problem will be forthcoming soon.
I was on the phone with TurboTax on Friday, the 26th, for just under 2 hours according to my phone. First with the initial contact person and then with one of their CPA’s. They linked into my return so they could see the issue. The CPA got a systems person linked in also to see the problem. They asked me if I was willing to transmit a copy of my return to them so they could diagnose and correct the issue. TurboTax automatically strips your personal information off when you do this so I agreed. I too got a job ticket number. I have the number 760261 and an ID number [social security number removed] written down on a post-it next to my laptop. Not sure which one it is. I wanted confirmation that they understood the error and were going to correct the problem as my phone battery was getting low. They told me not to worry. We have your phone number and e-mail address. We definitely will get back to you regarding this problem. I know it has been only two business days (not counting Saturday & Sunday) but, so far, the response back from TurboTax has been zero, nothing, nada, nil.
Frankly, this is a horrendous error for a tax preparation software supplier to have. I mean all errors are bad. But this isn’t like “credit ABC failed to carry to line 11 of form XYZ” or “the tax rate is 10.25% and should be 10.50%”. Part IV doesn’t foot. The additions and subtractions do not equal the bottom number. It doesn’t get anymore basic than that. It’s tax preparation 101. You expect the tax form to foot. Especially a computer generated one from a tax software supplier.
When I overrode one line on Part IV with the correct number, all the other lines changed to the their correct numbers. But, understandably, TurboTax does not allow you to e-file with an override. As they explained to me while I was on the phone, if we allowed overrides, we couldn’t guarantee that the return added up properly. And yet I suspect many people, once they saw Form 2210 finally available, just pulled the trigger and e-filed without double checking that all the numbers tied out properly. Probably with Part IV not footing. And TurboTax allowed this without displaying any error message.
To me this is really a failure of the systems people. I know TurboTax will tell us that the IRS was late in releasing this form and that they have to make the necessary changes once it’s released and then send it back to the IRS for final approval. And I understand all of that. But that doesn’t mean you sit around on your duff while you’re waiting and do nothing. You kind of know how things are going to change. Probably column (b) is going to be “not applicable” this year. The systems people should have been populating the form with various numbers while they were waiting to make sure the form footed and that numbers would appear in the correct columns. In my mind there is simply no excuse for not doing that and ultimately releasing a form to all of us that does not foot.
Thanks for your post. My experience with TT was similar to yours. I called TT support early Sunday morning. The agent linked into my PC and it took very little explanation for her to see the problem. She asked me to hold while she checked to see if this issue had been already reported. While holding her link to my PC closed and in seconds afterward the call was dropped. Since she had taken my phone number I thought she would call back. No luck. That was a 15 minute call wasted. I called back and asked to speak to the same agent but was told she was on another line. This TT agent said he was the supervisor and that he would be glad to help. So we did the link to my computer again and this time it took much longer for the agent to understand the problem, but he did finally get it. I was reluctant to allow a stripped version of my Form 2210 to reach TT but he explained that a copy of this would be downloaded so that I could verify that the names, SS number, etc., were not visible. So I agreed, and a good deal of the call was spent by him filling out the request the "engineers" need to investigate, validate, and fix the problem. He gave me a "token number",762826, and said within two or three days I would probably receive a call or email from the "engineers". Before terminating the computer link and the call, I mentioned that I had not received the stripped copy of my Form 2210 with the personal information deleted. He said that it would go directly to my TT folder. It didn't. Then we looked in the download folder. Nope, not there. Then he promised to email me a copy. Two days later, this hasn't happened and I've never had any further contact by email or phone. This second call lasted 1 hour 19 minutes. Hopefully something good will result from our trust and time spent trying get this problem corrected. But this is probably the last time I'll ever call TT support. Although, it was made easier in that the agents did speak American English and were easy to understand.
I called support late Tuesday evening again about this issue. I gave them my job ticket #760261 and told them no one from TurboTax has called back or e-mailed me as they promised. I asked them to look up the status of the job ticket. After about 30 minutes they told me that it is still open. When I asked what that meant, they said that systems hasn't resolved it yet. Not really a good answer as far as I'm concerned.
This morning I called support back. I asked the person if they could call systems directly but she said they could not; however, she could e-mail them. I asked her to please e-mail them regarding my job ticket number and advise them that, if the issue is not resolved in the next two days, I would send e-mails to
Mark Notarainni - Executive Vice President, Chief Customer Success Officer
Greg Johnson - Executive Vice President and General Manager, Consumer Group
Sasan Goodarzi - Chief Executive Officer
Maybe a corporate officer forwarding an e-mail down to systems asking "what's the status of this" will do what we cannot. Actually get systems to make the proper programing change.
Thanks. I'll let you know if I hear any update on my job ticket regarding the same failure to carry over any Overpayment in column (a) to the other columns.
TurboTax is aware of errors related to calculating underpayment penalties on Form 2210. The problem has been reported and is under investigation. Taxpayers can continue to e-file with the option of deleting the form and allowing the IRS to calculate any underpayment penalty for you.
How do I delete a tax form in the TurboTax CD/Down...
How do I view and delete forms in TurboTax Online?
So a TurboTax employee says that the solution to TurboTax being unable to create a tax form correctly is to delete the form???? And when the form is needed to avoid paying an underpayment penalty, how does that meet the TurboTax promise "I'll help you get your max refund, guaranteed!"???? The phrase "gross incompetence" springs to mind.
Today I got a noreply email from TT Salesforce.com essentially saying the agent that linked with my pc on Sunday screwed up his report (Token # 762826) and the uploaded Form 2210 was not available for analysis. This is frustrating after spending 1 hour 19 minutes on the phone. I'll explain the problem one more time here and this will terminate my efforts to resolve the issue. The issue being that an Overpayment of the required tax in the first period is not taken into account in figuring the penalty. The first period's overpayment, Line 26 in Form 2210 Part IV column a, was correctly carried forward to Line 20 of column b and the calculations down through Line 24 of column b were performed correctly. The evidence of the programming error becomes apparent in the calculation that should have been performed to populate Line 26 of column b. The program should have substracted the value in Line 18 column b from Line 24 in column b, which properly contained the value of the first period's overpayment. Line 18 column b was empty per the Line 18 instructions as this was done to reflect only 3 estimated tax due dates per the 2020 pandemic tax legislation. If the program had entered a 0. in column b Line 18 rather than leaving it blank, the Line 26 calculation that required a value from Line 18 may have been performed. I attempted to enter a 0. in Line 18 column b but was prevented from doing so. Clicking on the zoom glass for that window pointed me to column b of Line 17 of Form 2210AI. This would have been the correct entry for Line 18 column b of Form 2210 Part IV if this were tax year 2019. But for 2020, Line 18 column b should contain a 0. for every tax payer that completes Form 2210 Part IV.
So the net effect of the program's failure to substract 0. from value in Line 24 of column b (the first period's overpayment) prevented this overpayment from being populated in Line 20 column c. Therefore, the overpayment in the first period was not taken into consideration in calculating whether a penalty was due.
TurboTax is aware of errors related to calculating underpayment penalties on Form 2210. The problem has been reported and is under investigation. You can continue to e-file with the option of deleting the form and allowing the IRS to calculate any underpayment penalty for you.
IRS will be unable to calculate the penalty without Form 2210 AI which shows the income broken into four periods. If Form 2210 is deleted, will Form 2210 AI be transmitted when I efile?
I wonder if all the TT customer and software personnel are working from home! Might explain their inability to address a simple problem!
Chondel,
I appreciate that someone from TurboTax is finally responding to this issue; however, the answer you gave about deleting the form and letting the IRS calculate your penalty as a workaround to your programming errors in Form 2210 should be rescinded immediately. Or, at the very least, modified extensively.
I will agree you that, if a client has a penalty on Form 2210 based on the IRS’s default calculation, and, if that same client is unable to avail themselves of any of the exceptions noted under Part II (like exception C or D), then yes, deleting the form and letting the IRS calculate will yield the same result as if the taxpayer calculated the penalty themselves. However, for a taxpayer who has a penalty based on the IRS’s default calculation but can avail themselves of exceptions C or D to mitigate or eliminate the penalty completely, your advice of “everything will be fine if you just delete the form and let the IRS do the calculation” is akin to throwing the taxpayer under the bus. In this instance, your advice would actually compound the problem that has arose from your programming errors. For example, if you want the IRS to use exception C, “Annualized Income Installment Method”, to mitigate or eliminate your penalty, you must file Form 2210 and tell them that. Likewise, for exception D (and maybe A, B & E). If you delete Form 2210 and let the IRS do the calculation, how in the world would the IRS know you want to use exception C. And even if by some miracle they figured that out, where would they get the income data to do annualization calculation. No, if you want to use exception C or D, you must file Form 2210, indicate which exception you want the IRS to use, and then provide them with the raw data to do the alternate penalty calculation. If the taxpayer just deletes Form 2210 as you are telling them to, the IRS will only do the default calculation and then send the taxpayer a penalty due notice. And that penalty due notice the taxpayer receives may be entirely the result of your programming errors and your “delete form” advice.
Your advice to taxpayers using one the exceptions under Part II should be something like this.
Do not file your tax return at the present time. You must file Form 2210 to have the IRS implement the exception you checked under Part II; however, Form 2210 currently has some programming errors that result incorrect numbers being shown in Part IV, Columns (c) & (d), Lines 20 through 26. We will advise you when the programming errors have been corrected.
I know the IRS was late in releasing Form 2210. Based on discussions I was following in your various forums, it seemed that it was the last form many people needed before they e-filed. How many of your customers actually use Form 2210? Since you have millions of customers, I assume that number is in the thousands, probably the tens of thousands, maybe even hundreds of thousands. Then on February 26 TurboTax released the Form. Unfortunately, the form was released with programming errors. And, most unfortunately, those programming errors do not show up when a customer runs the “error check” within the TurboTax software. So, what do you think all the people that were waiting for this form started doing? My guess would be they opened up their return, made sure all of their necessary forms were ready, maybe had the TurboTax software do a final review, and then ultimately had the software do a final “error check”. The error check says the return is clean, no errors, and they are ready to e-file. I’m guessing that thousands of your customers that use Form 2210 began e-filing. But wait. On the same day you released the form, you were told there was a programming error in Part IV. I told you. Part IV doesn’t even foot properly. Job number 760861 on February 26. I don’t know, maybe the next day you could have pulled Form 2210 back off and said it’s not ready yet while you corrected the issue and therefore limited the carnage of thousands of people filing with incorrect data. But you did not. Maybe you could have fast tracked a programming change to correct the issue and, at least, tried to limit the amount of customer returns being filed with wildly incorrect data in Part IV. But you did not. It’s now a week later and we are still talking about this. TurboTax seems to care not one whit about thousands of their customers filing returns with bad data due to their programming errors.
Or maybe you do care. Maybe a TurboTax employee is currently working on some kind of statement that will be sent out to all your customers. Maybe something like the following:
Dear Customer,
We need to alert all of you to a programming error that occurred in Form 2210. The error has now been fixed; however, anyone that filed a tax return between February 26 and (date of fix) and also filed Form 2210 as part of the return may have incorrect numbers in Part IV, Columns (c) & (d), Lines 20 through 26 of that form. The IRS might assess you a penalty based on those incorrect numbers. If that happens, TurboTax will assist you in your penalty dispute. We have prepared a description of the programming error that occurred that you can include in any penalty response you need to send to the IRS. Our CPA’s can assist you in recalculating the appropriate penalty where our errors may have inflated the penalty you need to pay. And so on and so forth.
I see there was another update to my TurboTax today and this issue was still not fixed. It’s now been a week since this error was reported and there is still no fix in sight. If it is not fixed on Friday, I intend to e-mail the officers I listed above on Saturday. Their e-mail addresses are on your corporate website. I would certainly hope you or some other system person who may be following this thread has alerted your systems officers of what is going to happen here. Taking this issue to a higher level is about the only thing I do have control over. Evidently, systems does not have a lot concern us customers. All you need to do is read through this thread to understand that. They don’t care about thousands of us filing bad returns. And they are never going to answer us and own up their mistakes. Maybe, just maybe, it will be different when they have to explain themselves to corporate officers, their bosses. One can only hope.
The job number that was initiated on February 26 regarding this issue that I cited in my previous post was incorrect. I typed in job number 760861. The correct job number is 760261.
The original post did not state that you should send in the return without Form 2210 but rather offered it as an alternative. You may wait until the issue currently affecting Form 2210 is resolved, and then submit your tax return.
Michelle,
Both Chondel and Nashay posts essentially say the same thing. "Taxpayers can continue to e-file with the option of deleting the form and allowing the IRS to calculate any underpayment penalty for you". I think most people would look at that statement and think "well ok, TurboTax is saying that if I just delete the form and e-file, everything will still be fine". We have already established that things will not be fine if they are using any of the exceptions enumerated under Part II. Now I understand that you are not telling them that they should file this way. However, don't you believe a clearer, simpler statement that has less of a chance of being misunderstood would be:
For Taxpayers not using any of the exceptions listed under Form 2210, Part II, you can continue to e-file with the option of deleting the form and allowing the IRS to calculate any underpayment penalty for you.
@Thomas S Thank you for your suggestion, as we do wish to help TurboTax customers to have a great experience. With so many changes to tax law and forms, we have had more challenges than most years, particularly with Forms that the IRS has delayed. We appreciate your patience with us, and thank you for your feedback to assist you and other customers as well.
Suppose a taxpayer filed on 2/27/2021 and paid an underpayment penalty of $500 solely because the TT Form 2210 Part IV program did not consider the first period's overpayment. It is my understanding the the IRS's computer performs certain checks on ever return filed. Would this check identify the error in the taxpayer's return and the computer send the taxpayer a check that negates the penalty he paid when filing?
TT has still not "fixed" form 2210 Part IV! I have an overpayment of estimated taxes in period 1 that does not carry over to the second tax period. I always paper file on principle! I can fix this problem by editing line 26 of column (b) and printing my return. Without this correction, form 2210 shows an underpayment of estimated taxes in column (c). No penalty is calculated, however, because the Form 2210 underpayment penalty worksheet correctly address situation!
To compound my frustration with TT, H&R Block 2020 correctly completes form 2210. Also form SC2210, which is similar to the federal form, is filled out correctly!
I have been ready to file, waited on Form 2210, and now it's got errors and I have a penalty of $10, it should be zero. If I file anyway, will Turbotax refund me the purchase price of TT and state filing as stated in their guarantee? IRS has just extended filing date to May 17. I do not want TT to take an extra month to fix this!
Please click here to sign up for an email once the error is resolved.
Turbo Tax would not refund you if you filed prior to this form being fixed. You should wait until the form is final before filing.