Can my tax returns be e-filed if form 4852 (W-2 substitute) (for foreign pension) is included?
I am seeing conflicting comments about this.
I would rather pay taxes on my pension than have to paper file with form 8833 again. I paper copy mailed my 2019 taxes last September and they still have not been processed.
Thanks!
@darla1 wrote:
Can my tax returns be e-filed if form 4852 (W-2 substitute) (for foreign pension) is included?
I am seeing conflicting comments about this.
I would rather pay taxes on my pension than have to paper file with form 8833 again. I paper copy mailed my 2019 taxes last September and they still have not been processed.
Thanks!
No but a 4852 substitute 1099-R per the IRS 1040 instructions that say to report it on the 1040 line 5a and 5b.
Only a 1099-R can put it there. In the 1099-R interview select a substitute 1099-R.
IRS instructions page 22.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf
Foreign retirement plans.If you were a beneficiary of a foreign retirement plan, you may have to report the undis-tributed income earned in your plan. However, if you were the beneficiary of a Canadian registered retirement plan, see Rev. Proc. 2014-55, 2014-44 I.R.B. 753, available at IRS.gov/irb/2014-44_IRB#RP2014-55, to find out if you can elect to defer tax on the undis-tributed income.Report distributions from foreign pension plans on lines 5a and 5b.:
Does the substitute 1099-R selection process result in the generation of the Form 4852?
@ipc1 wrote:
Does the substitute 1099-R selection process result in the generation of the Form 4852?
Yes but why would you need a substitute?
Is there a problem with the original 1099-R that that the insurer refused to correct?
That is the only reason for substitute and you must include a statement of the error and that the issuer refused to correct it.
That’s what was recommended above, "In the 1099-R interview select a substitute 1099-R."
Oh -- for foreign pension. Yes that is how to report it.
Please clarify for the foreign pension, “Yes that is how to report it.”
Enter it in the 1099R sections and select "substitute 1099-R". It will ask for an explanation statement. Say that it is a foreign pension and provide the details.
You can only paper file and not e-file.
Enter a 1099-R here:
Federal Taxes,
Wages & Income
(I'll choose what I work on - if that screen comes up)
Retirement Plans & Social Security,
IRA, 401(k), Pension Plan Withdrawals (1099-R).
OR Use the "Tools" menu (if online version left side) and then "Search Topics" for "1099-R" which will take you to the same place.
This is my confusion, it does seem some users are e-filing for foreign pensions using the “substitute 1099-R”, and using a dummy payer id that works for TT e-filing. See for instance:
Solved: Thanks John-I prefer the 1099s for the info & the ... (intuit.com)
@ipc1 wrote:
This is my confusion, it does seem some users are e-filing for foreign pensions using the “substitute 1099-R”, and using a dummy payer id that works for TT e-filing. See for instance:
Solved: Thanks John-I prefer the 1099s for the info & the ... (intuit.com)
You can try but the IRS checks the TIN and if not valid can reject the return.
Before submitting e-file can TurboTax confirm that 99-0999999 will be accepted by the IRS for the Payer Federal ID entry?
Yes you can. Here are the steps:
In TurboTax online,
As to the Federal ID, try entering nine 9s. If electronic errors occur due to 1099-R data entry, enter the pension under Miscellaneous income, see instructions below. As long as the IRS has the pension reported and included in total income, it is not problematic.
If it is not taxable to you, to enter the exemption, follow here:
International tax treaty-related issues are out of scope for advice. You are suggested to consult a specialized professional for verification. This pension amount will show on line 5 of your Form 1040. If it's taxable, it will show on line 5b. If it's not taxable, it will show on line 5a for reporting purposes.
@darla1
But then we are right back to where we started (and my original question): because if you include form 8833 the returns must be paper-filed with TurboTax. Is there any way to e-file a return which includes a foreign pension? Sorry to keep on about this but paper filing was a disaster for me last year. My 2019 return has still not been processed.
If it is not taxable to you, you will have to paper-file to show IRS the Form 8833, unfortunately. If you really want to e-file, you can do so without the Form 8833 but most likely the IRS will send you a correspondence. You will then need to send back the Form 8833 with explanation.
@darla1 wrote:
But then we are right back to where we started (and my original question): because if you include form 8833 the returns must be paper-filed with TurboTax. Is there any way to e-file a return which includes a foreign pension? Sorry to keep on about this but paper filing was a disaster for me last year. My 2019 return has still not been processed.
Unfortunately the only way that I know to meet the IRS requirement of placing a foreign pension on the 1040 line 5a & 5b is with a substitute 1099-R with an explanation statement.. I do not believe a substitute 1099-R can be e-filed.
I do not believe any 8833 form is required to simply report a foreign pension unless a treaty reduces the taxable amount of the pension.
(Reporting as miscellaneous income as suggested above does not meet the requirement.)
Per IRS 1040 instructions:
Foreign retirement plans.If you were a beneficiary of a foreign retirement plan, you may have to report the undis-tributed income earned in your plan. However, if you were the beneficiary of a Canadian registered retirement plan, see Rev. Proc. 2014-55, 2014-44 I.R.B. 753, available at IRS.gov/irb/2014-44_IRB#RP2014-55, to find out if you can elect to defer tax on the undis-tributed income.Report distributions from foreign pension plans on lines 5a and 5b.
Lina - Thank you very much for this answer. Instructions for Form 8833 say "You do not have to file Form 8833 for any of the following situations: (the two that apply to me:) 2. You claim a treaty exemption that reduces or modifies the taxation of income from dependent personal services, pensions, annuities, social security and other public pensions........, 5. The payments or items of income that are otherwise required to be disclosed total no more than $10,000." So I am thinking that I can efile with form 4852 and do not have to file form 8833. I hope......
LinaJ2020,
Entering nine 9s gives an error, however entering 99-0999999 does work. This was found by others see for instance: Solved: Thanks John-I prefer the 1099s for the info & the ... (intuit.com)
My question was: when e-filing can TurboTax confirm that 99-0999999 will be accepted by the IRS for the Payer Federal ID entry?
With regard to the alternative method of using Miscellaneous income: “As long as the IRS has the pension reported and included in total income, it is not problematic.” What assurance do we have that this is the case?
@ipc1 wrote:
LinaJ2020,
.” What assurance do we have that this is the case?
See my answer above. The IRS says how to report it - on the 1040 line 5a/5b.
macuser_22,
Why do you write, “I do not believe a substitute 1099-R can be e-filed.” Given that one of the steps in the Substitute Form 1099-R process contains the following:
@ipc1 wrote:
macuser_22,
Why do you write, “I do not believe a substitute 1099-R can be e-filed.” Given that one of the steps in the Substitute Form 1099-R process contains the following:
Because TurboTax says it cannot be.
https://care-cdn.prodsupportsite.a.intuit.com/forms-availability/turbotax_fed_online_individual.html
macuser_22,
What is the meaning of form e-file unsupported?
Was it supported in the past?
In the past, 99-0999999 was allowed for e-file, but not anymore.
In order to e-file, you have an option to enter under "Other Reportable Income". Here are the steps:
In TurboTax online,
This amount will show on line 8 of Schedule 1 and Form 1040. Although it was not reported on a 1099-R related form, as long as it is reported as Other Income, it is not problematic to the IRS. Tax treaty-related matters are out of scope for our advice. Generally, foreign pension is taxable to the US. You would not need to file the Form 8833 Treaty-Based Return Position Disclosure. However, you would need to consult another professional who is specialized in it for verification. Some other foreign pension might not be taxable if it is covered under any tax treaties between the foreign country and the United States. For more information, see http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/The-Taxation-of-Foreign-Pension-and-Annuity-Distributions
@ipc1
@ipc1 wrote:
macuser_22,
What is the meaning of form e-file unsupported?
Was it supported in the past?
I do not believe so.
@LinaJ2020 wrote:
In the past, 99-0999999 was allowed for e-file, but not anymore.
In order to e-file, you have an option to enter under "Other Reportable Income". Here are the steps:
Except that will not put in on the 1040 line 5 as the IRS requires.
For 2021 return, it seems that using 99-9999999 generates an error loop and forces file by mail. Using 99-0999999 clears the error loop. The relevant pension income shows up (I think correctly) on Line 5b of the 1040. I am filing Form 8938 to report the UK pension that this relates for my return and reporting there that the relevant income is being reported at line 5(b) of the 1040. I don't want to efile, don't want to mess with Treaty elections. Hopefully this works.