Can IRS Form 1040SR Line 5b ever be greater than Line 5a?

No, it is not possible for the taxable amount to be greater than the total amount.

So DaveF1006 - How do we get TT code writers to flag a return with this condition so the customer can't submit the return until the error is corrected?

I was allowed to submit my return with this error and will now have to wait until February 16th to try to Amend it.

I don't see any bug reporting link on Turbo Tax...

Yes the taxable amount on the "b" line can be more than the "a" line.  If the taxable amount is the same as the total distribution then nothing shows up on a. The amount would only show on b.  If you have more than 1 item then it can be different. 

I just checked in my 2021 program.  When the gross amount is the same as the taxable amount both lines 4a & 5a are blank and the taxable amount on line b.   

Screen shot

Hi VolvoGirl,

The 2021 screen shot is slightly different from the 2022 form right? If 1099-R Gross Distributions Amount and Taxable Amount are equal on each of the 1099-R entered then 5a and 5b should be equal. 5b should never be higher than all Gross Distributions entered. If is can be, that would mean you are getting taxed on more money than you acutally received, right? 

So should 5a and 5b both be 87,144?  What are the other 1099Rs amounts?  It's ok for 5b to be more than 5a.  If the gross amount is the same as the taxable amount then Turbo Tax doesn't put the gross amount on line a.  

Also you said one of the 1099R is code G?  Then it might need to say ROLLOVER by line 5b.  

Let me page @dmertz 

The only way I've been able to come up with line 5b being more than line 5a is to enter an amount in box 2a of a 1099R that is more than the amount that is in box 1.  That seems to be opposite what you described in the original question, but that's the only reason I know of that TurboTax would flag the entry in box 2a.

I would delete any erroneously entered Forms 1099-R (the code-G Form 1099-R) and reenter them.

Hi dmertz (and my thanks to everyone's inputs),

I do plan to amend my return and will likely delete the 1099-R entry in question and then re-enter it.

My greater goal is to get this issue to the Turbo Tax software engineering team and their tax experts so they can validate it. So far, counting my own, there are three different opinions/experiences:

Reading the IRS instructions I do not see a case where if only Line 5 entries are made that 5b could ever be greater than 5a. 

DaveF1006 agrees. Taxable amount can never be greater than Total amount.

If that is correct, then the software can be tweaked to trap, flag and report the error, and require the user to  correct the mistake before allowing them to file. 

VolvoGirl believes 5b can be greater than 5a but bases this on demonstrating it with a 2021 Turbo Tax example which does not show the amount entered for 5a.

dmetz is only able to demonstrate the problem using the opposite conditions. If 1099-R Box 2a amount entered as greater than Box 1 amount TT flags 2a.

The flag TT agent Melissa and I found was on the 1099-R entry page that includes the 3 radio buttons asking about How much of it was Deductable but I can't get that screen back. I suspect this bug is in the How to Enter a Back-Door Roth IRA procedure I tried following. Here are two sets of before and after screen shots from 2022 Turbo Tax 1099-R entry showing the effect of Box 1 and 2a being equal and Box 2a being less than Box 1. As soon as Continue is pressed Federal Tax changes.2aEqualTo1_BeforeContinueButton2aEqualTo1_AfterContinueButton2aLessThan1_BeforeContinueButton2aLessThan1_AfterContinueButton

I found a Community question "How do I report a Turbo Tax bug to Intuit?" posted by jsmuts but it is unanswered.

xmasbaby0 replied "What's the bug?   There are some they already know about and are working on."

The thread stops there.

Will dmetz, VolvoGirl, or DaveF1006 be reporting my bug to Intuit or is there a way for me to do it? 

I found a Community question "How do I report a Turbo Tax bug to Intuit?" posted by jsmuts but it is unanswered.

xmasbaby0 replied "What's the bug?   There are some they already know about and are working on."

The thread stops there.

Will dmetz, VolvoGirl, or DaveF1006 be reporting my bug to Intuit or is there a way for me to do it?

I found a Community question "How do I report a Turbo Tax bug to Intuit?" posted by jsmuts but it is unanswered.

xmasbaby0 replied "What's the bug?   There are some they already know about and are working on."

The thread stops there.

Will VolvoGirl be reporting my bug to Intuit or is there a way for me to do it?

I found a Community question "How do I report a Turbo Tax bug to Intuit?" posted by jsmuts but it is unanswered.

xmasbaby0 replied "What's the bug?   There are some they already know about and are working on."

The thread stops there.

Will dmetz be reporting my bug to Intuit or is there a way for me to do it?

The IRS instructions for lines 5a and 5b produce confusing results when multiple Forms 1099-R are involved.  Fully taxable distributions that are not rolled over are to be included only on line 5b, not on line 5a.  Combine this with a taxable rollover that must be included on both line 5a and 5b and you can end up correctly seeing line 5b greater than line 5a.  My reply addressed entering only a single Form 1099-R, one for a taxable rollover to a Roth account.

Yes lines 4a and  5a can be less than the taxable amount on the b line.   If any of the 1099R has the same amount for Gross and Taxable.  Then that gross amount is not included in 4a/5a.  It looks at each 1099R separately.  So you can end up with weird amounts.

Here are the 1040 instructions for line 4.  Line 5 is the same way.

Thanks dmertz for the clarification. It doesn't seem to change the outcome of what it appears Turbo Tax did incorrectly.

All 1099-Rs entered had the Taxable Amounts identical to the Gross Amounts. By VolvoGirl's excerpt of 1040 Line 4a & 4b instructions, no number should appear on 5a. Line 5b should be the total of all the individual1099-Rs entered. TT put numbers in both 5a and 5b. I do not have control of those entries, the software populates it based on the entries made on the 1099-R page. Even setting that issue aside, the numbers being different is still incorrect.

Given my specific case of All Gross = All Taxable, the numbers populating 5a and 5b should be identical by the IRS rules/instructions.

Thanks for the clarification VolvoGirl. Now dmertz agrees there are conditions where 5b can be greater than 5a but that doesn't seem to change the outcome of what it appears Turbo Tax did incorrectly.

All 1099-Rs entered had the Taxable Amounts identical to the Gross Amounts. By your excerpt of 1040 Line 4a & 4b instructions, no number should appear on 5a. Line 5b should be the total of all the individual1099-Rs entered. TT put numbers in both 5a and 5b. I do not have control of those entries, the software populates it based on the entries made on the 1099-R page. Even setting that issue aside, the numbers being different is still incorrect.

Given my specific case of All Gross = All Taxable, should not the numbers populating 5a and 5b be identical by the IRS rules/instructions?

Yes, @WHK your 1099-R should have 5a and 5b equal.  Or 5b should have been less than 5a by $9,138.  But unfortunately, because 5b can be greater than 5a, the program can't shut down your ability to file if there is a discrepancy there.  It flags it with the little yellow review triangle that you saw and leaves it at that.  So you've got an unfortunate typo there but not a software bug.

On the good news front it is entirely possible that the IRS will catch your error and adjust your return on its own.  The 1099 totals on your return won't match what's in their system so they may issue an adjustment to you.  

@WHK

Thanks RobertB4444. Since TT can't trap that scenario and stop filing until corrected, would a notification to the user during the "Final Check" process be a possible improvement in the software behavior? It could inform the user of the number of these "flagged" conditions and where in the return they exist, along with a recommendation to re-evaluate these before submitting the return.  Just a suggestion for those of us user that have "fat fingers" ;o)

Yet I have the same problem except 4a or 5a are blank with amounts in 4b or 4b.   1099Rs are correct as is the 1099R Summary Worksheet.  Is this a bug in Turbo Tax Deluxe?

I am having a similar problem.  I have no "G" code just blank 4a or 5a boxes when I have the correct taxable amount in 4B or 5B.  Can I submit a return with blank 4a or 5a boxes for Form 1040-SR?

Yes.  It's ok for  line 4a and 5a to be less than the taxable amount on b.    And if the gross amount on line a is the same as b then "a" can be blank.