So, my brother is a Successor Trustee of our family Trust that closed out pretty much in 2022. My father passed in August 2021. The Trust was pretty much a house sale. He already paid me my portion of the Trust.
Now I am waiting for a K-1 form that is generated from a 1041 form he must file. I am confused as to when he has to get this to me. I have been told different things. I read on one post the deadline for these type of forms are March 15? I can't file my taxes without this form.
The new deadline is May 15 because of the weather crisis and flooding in CA. where I live. But, now I hear it is in October? Would that be for this type of filing as well? I talked to the IRS and they said he had until this May 15 to file the 1041 form and if he did that I would be required to actually file for an extension to do my taxes this year. I am really confused ball of this. Help?
Victims of severe winter storms, flooding, and mudslides in certain California counties beginning January 8, 2023, now have until October 16, 2023, to file various Federal individual and business tax returns and make tax payments. See this IRS news release, which was last updated on February 23, 2023, for more details and to confirm whether your situation qualifies.
See here for the latest guidelines for California state taxes. California is also extending the filing due date to October 16, 2023, for taxpayers in the affected areas.
The extended time for filing your individual return, if you are in the affected area, applies regardless of what tax forms and schedules you need to include with your return.
The postponement of time to file and pay does not apply to residents and businesses located in the following 7 counties: Imperial, Kern, Lassen, Modoc, Plumas, Shasta, and Sierra.
The regular due date for issuance of Schedule K-1 is March 15th. In order to file an accurate return, it's generally best to wait until you have the K-1 before finishing and filing your return.
See also this TurboTax tips article for more information on Schedule K-1, and this one for help with entering the K-1 in TurboTax.
Thank you. So, this year the K-1 form he is to provide me with is still March 15 or is that not accurate? The IRS told me he has until May 15th this year to file the 1041 as long as it is postmarked by that date? I'm still really confused.
They told me if he waited that long I have to file an extension for the October deadline.
The representative who told you that you would need to file an extension may not have been aware that you lived in the area covered by the disaster relief provision.
You should only file your return without the Schedule K-1 information if it isn't received in time for you to file by October 16, 2023, if you are in the affected area. In that unlikely event, you could file an amended return when you receive the information.
As stated in the IRS News Release updated February 23, 2023, affected individuals and businesses will have until Oct. 16 to file returns and pay any taxes that were originally due during this period. This includes 2022 individual income tax returns due on April 18, as well as various 2022 business returns normally due on March 15 and April 18.
OK, so when would my brother who is the Successor Trustee have until to file the 1041 form and generate the K-1 form I need? Was IRS agent correct that he now has until the May 15 deadline? Or, are you saying he has all the way until October as well to file those forms?
The IRS agent took my county down and spoke with someone while I was on hold. I think they had that information correct. What I don't understand is when "exactly" the deadline for my brother to file the 1041 is for 2023 with all of these extensions? So, he does have until October? This is all so confusing to me. Nobody seems to know.I've gotten 5 different answers from 5 different people including the IRS.
Again she had my county which is Placer County. The original tax deadline is April 18. It got extended to May 15 originally and now until October. She said he has until May 15 to file the 1041. I have read in many other links that in regards to 1041 forms the Successor Trustee has until the 4th month of the tax year filing for the calendar tax year the income was received? It's all just crazy to me. I then heard it was 4 months after my dad died. My dad died in August 2021. My brother sold the house and paid me my half in April 2022. that pretty much is it for the Trust.
@PJhiker wrote:
....So, he does have until October?
He has until October 16th to file the 1041 (and issue the K-1s) for the trust, according to the link provided in the first response in this thread.
@PJhiker wrote:I have read in many other links that in regards to 1041 forms the Successor Trustee has until the 4th month of the tax year filing for the calendar tax year the income was received?
Trusts are typically on a calendar year (which ends on the last day of December of any tax year, December 31st). The "15th day of the 4th month following the close of the tax year" deadline is for fiscal year estates (and only certain trusts that are permitted to file on a fiscal year basis).
What is the technical term for this type of filing for a Trust/Estate as it relates to deadlines? Is it a business filing? It's not individual right? What would that fall under?
The technical term is "estate or trust", but the entities are also referred to, at times, as "business returns" in a broad sense.
OK so I'm assuming in broad sense this falls under the business filing? And, I am assuming the IRS agent was then wrong when she said to me on the phone that he had until May 15 to file the 1041? She said he could not file that in October. And, she said if he waited until the very end it would force the to have to file for an October extension because I won't get my K-1 form obviously until after May 15. She said in this case the October deadline is not automatic. This is all just kind of ridiculous to be honest. they need to just have one date for it all and quit with this nonsense. It makes it worse and not better. I mean extending a month or two from the April deadline, but nobody has given a concert 100% answer. I really do appreciate you feedback, but I've heard 4-5 different responses to it and I have no idea who to believe. The IRS says one thing, a tax professional said another. People on Reddit say the opposite.
@PJhiker wrote:
....nobody has given a concert 100% answer. I really do appreciate you feedback, but I've heard 4-5 different responses to it and I have no idea who to believe.
I would suggest that you ignore the background noise and rely on the information available on the official federal and state web sites.
It's hard to ignore an IRS agent who took 3-4 minutes to talk to her supervisor and then come back with the answer saying she was sure.
@PJhiker wrote:
It's hard to ignore an IRS agent who took 3-4 minutes to talk to her supervisor and then come back with the answer saying she was sure.
Actually, it is very easy to ignore if you understand the level of education, training, and experience those positions require (and I do not mean to be unkind, it is just a fact).
On the other hand, there is a web site with information that you can print out and save with your records if a question ever arises in the future.
[I noted that you stated in your original post about having read the deadline was March 15th, which is applicable to partnerships/multi-member LLCs and S corporations, not calendar year trusts and estates. The point being it is easy to conflate one type of return and deadline with another]
Thanks. Yeah, I am aware the K-1 for corporations etc. is the March 15 deadline and not what I am seeking. Again I am seeing a K-1 from a 1041 for a Trust/Estate. Also, I'm still reading if I owe taxes for the 2022 calendar year I still have to pay by April 18 which is the original overall tax deadline. How exactly can I pay what I might owe by April 18 if I don't what I will end up owing without all the forms etc. that are now not due until October?
@PJhiker wrote:
How exactly can I pay what I might owe by April 18 if I don't what I will end up owing without all the forms etc. that are now not due until October?
You can file for an extension.
See https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4868.pdf
Of course, you will need to get some sort of estimate of any tax liability that would flow from the K-1 since the extension does not relieve you of the obligation to pay by the deadline.
[Do you have any idea with respect to the actual sales price and the basis? You must know your share of the proceeds from the trust]
Yes, I do know that information for most part. Do I have to pay an estimate by April 18 to the IRS and CA. state? I did not work this year as I left my job in late 2021. I have been working on the house while my GF works and day trading. I might owe a little on that too, but I think I can figure that on here by just uploading the 1099s from the brokerages.
Here is my scenario. I am the beneficiary of a Trust that my brother is the Successor Trustee of. My father passed in August of 2021. There was basically a house for us to sell and split the proceeds.
We sold the house in March of 2022 and he paid my my half. The appraisal upon the date of my fathers house was for $510,000. We sold the house for $551,000. After closing costs the Title says the amount due to the Seller is $515,188.78.
My brother wrote me a check for $257,400. If you multiple that by two you get $514,800. That little difference is for him and a property tax thing.
So, essentially he and would pay capital gains taxes on the $5,188.78 difference between the appraisal price $510,000 on the house upon my father’s passing and amount we received as seller at $515,188.78 correct? So we would be paying capital gains on %5,188.78 total and we would split that between us at $2,594.39 right? That does not include deductions like a $2,000 staging fee we would also split? This is all confusing to me.
I'm not sure if there are any other really significant deductions in the closing cost or elsewhere. How would you estimate that by those numbers?
@PJhiker wrote:.....we would be paying capital gains on %5,188.78 total and we would split that between us at $2,594.39 right? That does not include deductions like a $2,000 staging fee we would also split?
This is most likely much ado about nothing, really, since the amount is so minimal. You are looking at a long-term capital gain of $2,594 (long-term since the house was acquired from a decedent).
Long-term capital gains are taxed at a rate at 0%, 15%, or 20%, depending upon your taxable income and filing status. It appears as if you are in the lower range so your tax liability on this gain could very well be $0 (or extremely low).
You can use TaxCaster to get a rough estimate or plug the figures into TurboTax.
See https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tools/calculators/taxcaster
Thanks so much! Where exactly would I input these numbers on Turbo tax? Is there an area (estimates) outside the K-1 form here to put the numbers? So it is long term capital gains? OK, that is great to know. Would Turbo Tax Pay the IRS and State if I enter on here and file as well?
yeah, I don't have a W-2 to enter this year for employee income so I assume I will just be entering or it gets calculated by a preset tier % correct?
You can either pretend that you already received the K-1 and enter it in the K-1 section of the program (use Line 4a) or you can enter it as if you had sold a stock or mutual fund in the Investment Income section and record a long-term gain of $2,594. Either way should give you a good estimate.
[also, note that if your taxable income, assuming your filing status is single, is less than $41,675, then your long-term capital gains tax rate would be 0%]
I will try those. Do you know the long term capital gains rate if I were to not have a W2 form? Is that just federal? Would I pay the state to for these capital gains in the Trust and/or state?
I am not certain about California, but I believe the capital gains tax rate is the same as the regular income tax rate.
So my capital gains taxes are zero on these long term capital gains from the taxable income I received of $2,594.00 on the house/estate? Do I even have to enter the K-1 if that is the case? Does my brother even need to file a 1041 and get a K-1 to me?
Yes, you need to enter the K-1 (the IRS is going to receive a copy) and your brother will have to file a 1041 since a 1099-S was issued to the trust.
The only way you would not have to enter the K-1 would be if you were not required to file a return at all.
Would turbo Tax pay the state and IRS my estimated payment since I have to pay by April 18? I don't pay the state and feds right on capital gains like these for the house? I mean it appears to be zero from what you are saying.
What are short term capital gains on securities like ETFs and stocks if I had a small gain in 2022 without employment and below that 41k number?
TurboTax does not pay anything in terms of estimated tax payments; you need to do that yourself either by sending in the 1040-ES vouchers or making an online payment (see link below).
Short-term capital gains are taxed at regular income tax rates. Since I do not know your total income (and the type), I cannot determine exactly how much you would owe to the state or feds (if anything).