Can a trustee and beneficiary of a irrevocable trust gift money to the same trust, if so how much is allowed and does the trust have to pay taxes on such a gift ?

"Irrevocable trust" is vague....there are differing types and terms but usually:

1. Gifts to trusts are gifts to the beneficiaries.

2. No maximum dollar amount but over $18k to each beneficiary and a 709 needs to be filed.

3. Trusts do not have to pay taxes on gifts to the trusts.....which are gifts to beneficiaries........unless the donors exceed their lifetime exclusion of over $13 million.

I appreciate your reply to my questions and your answers.

So just to confirm,  its also ok for  both a trustee and beneficiary to make such a gift to the same trust ?

Thank you

So just to confirm,  its also ok for  both a trustee and beneficiary to make such a gift to the same trust ?

It's technically OK but it's not a gift at all if the settlor, trustee, and beneficiary is the same person and beneficiaries cannot give gifts to themselves. Also any gift to a trust is not a gift to the trust but a gift to the beneficiaries for federal tax purposes.

I appreciate the reply again greatly.

My apologies though  I am kinda confused when you said its technically ok for a trustee and beneficiary to make gifts to the same trust, but not if the trustee and beneficiary are all the same person ??

To confirm the settlor who setup the irrevocable trust is is a parent and the trustee and beneficiary to the trust is is the parents child. 

With that said can you clarify and confirm if the  trustee and beneficiary here, is allowed to gift money to the  same trust,  as you described in your initial answer. 

Thank you

Is the trustee and beneficiary the same person?  Why do you want to gift or put money into the Trust?  What kind of money?  Are you trying to move personal income to the Trust?  

With that said can you clarify and confirm if the  trustee and beneficiary here, is allowed to gift money to the  same trust,  as you described in your initial answer. 

     I think I was misquoted because you described a situation which might involve a beneficiary adding money to the trust and that cannot be a gift in any sense.......you can't give yourself a gift. 

     Whether a trustee or beneficiary can add funds to an irrevocable trust set up by another party would depend on the terms of the trust.....and it's either likely that can't be done or would not be advisable.

    You need to find a local attorney who can review the terms of the trust.

In reply to your questions:

Yes as previously  mentioned the trustee and beneficiary is the same person,

The cash gift from the beneficiary would be gifting the trust  via personal funds.

The gift is to provide the trust with additional funds to help pay expenses for rental property the trust owns, which has had issues being rented , thus making the trust sort of a property rich  but not as cash rich to pay for expenses of maintaining property owned by it ?

With this said can you clarify and confirm are you saying in your previous response  a person who is both a trustee and beneficiary of a irrevocable trust is NOT allowed to make gifts to that same trust?

Thank you

while the trust may be "irrevocable" in the title or a provision, certain provisions in the Trust agreement may mean that the IRS regards this as a grantor trust.  you need to confer with a trust attorney

Mike9241 is right....this could be a grantor trust.....a trust that is disregarded in the sense that the trustee/beneficiary owns the assets in the trust. If this is a grantor trust then you could add money since the assets the trust owns are your assets. 

In reply to your previous post may I ask and can you please clarify the following;

As mentioned previously the grantor  who setup the irrevocable trust is is a parent and the trustee and beneficiary to the trust is is the parents child.

1) With the above said do you mean this trust is considered a grantor trust?

2) If so,  to confirm you are saying the trustee and beneficiary (again same person) is allowed to and can make money cash gifts to the trust?

THANK  YOU

1) With the above said do you mean this trust is considered a grantor trust?

Depends on the terms of the trust......what powers the beneficiary has, etc, and that can only be determined by reading the trust doc....which none of us here have in front of us.

BTW, how old is the "child"?

2) If so,  to confirm you are saying the trustee and beneficiary (again same person) is allowed to and can make money cash gifts to the trust?

If it's a grantor trust it would be hard to think of any term that would prevent the trustee-bene from adding money to the trust.....also, btw, it still isn't a gift.

In reply the child of the grantor is  adult

The grantor can add money to the trust unless there is some specific prohibition which is not very likely.

It's not a gift if you give something to yourself. This would be nothing more than a deposit......a transfer of money to the trust which the trustee-bene already owns.

Sounds like this person is dealing with a now irrevocable trust (started as grantor revocable trust) — would now be irrevocable if parent passed.  Sounds like they are the trustee as well as a current beneficiary.  

To make it their own grantor trust (revocable), they would have to transfer all of the current irrevocable trust’s assets into the new grantor trust.  An expensive move. 

If the current irrevocable trust cannot afford the upkeep of its asset(s), the trustee can pay out of pocket and get paid back by the trust at a later date once funds are available (presumable from selling an asset). 

This is to the best of my understanding.

They don't have to transfer anything, actually. 

Irrevocable trusts can still be grantor trusts under certain circumstances.