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Thanks - i have too much income for AOTC or LLC.  With the elimination of the personal exemption and higher std deduction I will use married filing jointly w/ std deduction (24k) and I don't think i get any benefit having my son and daughter as dependents.  They can file for LLC or AOTC or tuition and fee deduction and lower their taxes (both work; my son also graduated in May and worked full time in the summer through Oct).  I was thinking the support i provided for them in terms of Room/Board(food) and any tuition could be considered tax-free gift (30K each from their mother and I) and then i didn't support them and they are independent?  Not sure what any benefit of claiming them is or how IRS looks at this.