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You are right on all counts.  I was drawing a similarity between investors writing off the worthless copper mine stocks people were buying back when.  Fact is, it was most likely worthless when purchased--the buyer just didn't know it, so held it for years before giving up. For years before investing in this pig butchering scam, this woman was a fairly astute trader.  She  traded on various exchanges frequently and profitably and usually added $20K or so to her annual income.  This was really out of character. Thanks for the input.  I've loaned her enough to pay off the highest interest loans, but that's about all I can do.  I guess she can go the safe harbor route and at least get her $40K paid in taxes for 2023 back, and that's about it.  That's at least easy, and she has all the documentation and meets the requirements.