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OK, Mike. Thanks. I  am talking about 2023 tax year. 

     I guess I can't make a conversion in the 4th quarter of 2023, then, without estimated-tax penalty, since the end of the first quarter has already passed. Fair statement?  Said another way. I need to make a conversion decision (will I do it and how much) in the first quarter in order to avoid a penalty? So much for pay-as-you-go, per IRS.