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isamnani
New Member

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return? (2) how to take into account currency difference between the two countries for the "income earned minus expenses such as property management fees, HOA, property tax "etc; (3) how to calculate depreciation?; (4) how to claim tax paid in foreign country upon closing?. 

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11 Replies
Anita01
New Member

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

You would have to report the income and expense on the Schedule E for rental property.  You do this under the Rental Income and Expense section under income.

When you enter the cost basis and other expenses, you translate them into US dollars by exact date or average.  For example, you would use the exact date for the purchase price,  For equal expenses paid monthly, you could average month-end translation rates and apply that rate to the amount paid over the year.

For depreciation purposes, you will enter the rental property as an Asset, and make sure you choose that this is a foreign property, as foreign properties depreciate at a different rate than domestic properties.  The program will then calculate the allowable depreciation for you.

You can only deduct foreign tax paid up to the amount of tax you WOULD have paid in the US on the same income.  That amount may turn out to be lower than the amount actually paid in the foreign country.

You enter foreign tax paid under the Taxes Paid Topic under Deductions and Credits.  You can enter the full amount of foreign tax paid but, remember, you will only be credited for the amount you would have paid on the income in the US.  Your tax paid in the other country when purchasing the real estate may not be a tax normally paid here in the US and would likely not be included in your credit.  If, on the other hand, it was property tax paid at settlement, you would include it on the Schedule E for rental income, translated into US dollars on the date paid.

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

HI have a folloup Q,

As the rental property is overseas do we need to list out the expenses under line#2 "deductions in form 1116 "passive income catagory " as well?

I know we need to have expenses in ScheduleE which is linked to 1040.

 

Thanks a lot.

-VJ

pk
Level 15
Level 15

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

Are you US citizen/ Resident ( Green Card )/ Resident for tax ourposes ?  If so then  yes the  comments above  by @Anita01  applies but  not if you need to file form 1040-NR.   Also  please note that foreign tax credit  is generally applicable only to  tax on income .  Some countries  ( Greece for example )  have a flat tax on rental  property  which  does not have a direct equivalent  in the USA  and therefore needs to be treated as a component of property tax or similar  ( and therefore not treated as eligible for  foreign tax credit ).  Also  which country are you talking about --- there may be treaty conditions to be considered ?  Another point to note is that while foreign tax credit computation recognizes nearly all the  taxes paid, but allowable  amount is based on a ratio of foreign income  to world income -- unallowed  foreign tax credit  can be carried back or forward but can be used  ONLY when there is foreign income.

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

Thanks for replying.

-- Are you US citizen/ Resident ( Green Card )/ Resident for tax ourpose == YES

-- Property is in Australia, and I am certain there is TAX treaty

 

My Q is very specific to 1116 

Do I need to list out the expenses under line#2 "deductions in form 1116 "passive income category " as well?

I know we need to have expenses in ScheduleE which is linked to 1040.

I have talked to a few CPA and have got conflicting reports.

 

 

 

pk
Level 15
Level 15

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

As I see from your response, you have talked to a few CPAs ( note that not all CPAs specialize in tax preparation of individuals -- there is more money in corporate and business tax situations and very few really deal with foreign earned  income and /or foreign tax credit for an individual)  with inconclusive results and therefore I am not sure what you are really looking for .  As I have mentioned above , foreign tax credit is ONLY  against INCOME tax imposed by a foreign taxing authority.  Thus unless Australia ( where your rental property is ) imposes  an INCOME TAX on your rental income, that tax is not eligible  for US foreign Tax Credit.  Non-income taxes are an expense reported on schedule-E for rental income, just like property taxes for US based income properties.  

If you would like more IRS refs on this , please feel welcome to peruse IRS or let me know and I will be happy to provide some ref.

Carl
Level 15

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

Basically, the absolute only difference between foreign rental and domestic rental property when it comes to the SCH E, is the fact that foreign rental property is depreciated over 30 years if placed in service ***AFTER*** 2017. Otherwise it's 39 years if place in service in 2017 or before. Whereas domestic rental property (rental property located in the U.S.) is depreciated over 27.5 years.

Understand that it is "RARE" for rental property to ever show a taxable profit "on paper" when you file your taxes. This is especially true if you have a mortgage on the property. Generally, the allowed rental deductions of mortgage interest, property taxes, insurance and the depreciation you are required to take by law will themselves exceed the total rental income received for the year. Add to that the other rental expenses you are allowed to take and you're practically guaranteed to not have taxable rental income on the SCH E. So if line 26 of the SCH E shows zero or a negative amount, then you have *nothing" to exclude from U.S. taxation in the foreign exclusion section of the program since you have no taxable rental income.

If line 26 shows a positive amount, then you can only exclude the portion that you "actually paid" foreign taxes on. But I doubt you'll have a positive amount on line 26.

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

 again,

sme clarifications as per your comments:

1-- Australia DOES impose income tax on rental income

2-- I already have all rental expenses in schedule E. and it does show up in 1040 as it would normally

3-- when i fill form 1116 for passive income I have stated my rental income in Line 1a

My Question is Do I need to enter the expenses again in Line2 in form 1116? the value is same as what came up in ScheduleE

 

One tax agent said u DONT list in form 1116 and the other one said u have to report again.

I have seen that if i enter again in 1116 line my refund amount goes down. so it does have an impact on how the overall tax is calculated.

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

pk
Level 15
Level 15

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

@vsr94539 , sorry it took me a awhile to get back to you.  As I read the ATO ( Australian Tax Office ) articulation on rental income, it is a tax on Net-Income -- the allowed deduction are generally quite similar to that of  IRS Schedule-E.  Thus when you report  your foreign Net-Income ( that attracted AU taxes and is being taxed in the USA ), you also report the actual foreign taxes paid to AU --- you do NOT report the gross  foreign income NOR foreign deduction  ( even though the net rental income for US tax purposes may be different than that for AU purposes )  allowed.

 

Hope this helps

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

@pk 

First of all I really appreciate you taking time to check ATO

And I apologies again for asking something fundamental w.r.t form 1116 as I dont want to assume something.

As per the filing instructions on IRS for form 1116.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1116.pdf

The instructions do suggest " Lines 1a and 1b—Foreign Gross Income" so should this be Gross rental income or Net?

Also "Lines 2 Through 5—Deductions and Losses You must reduce your foreign gross income on line 1a by entering on lines 2 through 5" Does that mean I Do need to report sum of all expenses that are listed in ScheduleE against this rental property?

 

 

 

pk
Level 15
Level 15

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

@vsr94539 , I have gone through the 1116 instructions again and   (a) they are using "Gross" as a safe word to cover all the different types of income, including  foreign earned income exclusion amount (b)  deductions to catch everything except for income taxes .  In your particular case --- rental gross -- would be wrong because  you are not taxed by the foreign  taxing authority on  the gross rental income -- they are taxing on net rental income.  This brings  up another issue --  which net rental income to use?  If the US net rental income per  Schedule -E is very different  than  the equivalent net for the foreign tax computation , then  which is your net to use ?  For example, == (1) Gross rents received  is  US$40,000    ;    (2) rental expenses US$20,000;  (3) depreciation allowed ( foreign ) US$ 10,000 --- thus foreign  net income  US$ 10,000 and taxed  at 20% -- foreign tax  US$2,000.    For US tax purposes  your net  rental income per Schedule-E is  US$12,000 .   In such a case should you use the US$12,000 or US$10,000 as your net foreign rental income  against which a foreign tax credit of US$2000 is asked for ?   My view is that in such a case  US$10,000 is the net foreign income  that  caused the foreign tax of  $2000 ( eligible for credit), even though one could  also argue that it is the $12,000 that should be used as net  rental income  because it is this that is being taxed by the USA ( and probably more tax beneficial ).   In any case if you did follow the 1116 instructions in Toto, you will still come up with US$10,000 as your net rental income  --Gross of US$40,000 LESS deductions of US$20,000, depreciation of US$10,000.  Hence my suggestion to use net Rental income and forego listing of deductible expenses.

I hope this clears up the air a bit 

 

I bought a condo outside US and rented out. Besides filing income on tax return in that country, which form do i need to claim foreign income tax paid on US tax return?

@pk this is great info. thanks a lot for all the answers!!!

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