topic My rental house was destroyed by fire but I rebuilt and then sold it. How and where do I enter all the expenses as well as the insurance reimbursements? in Investors & landlords

My rental house was destroyed by fire but I rebuilt and then sold it. How and where do I enter all the expenses as well as the insurance reimbursements?

jrpriest54 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:24 GMT

Did you rent out the property at all, after it was rebuilt?

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:26 GMT

Did you rent out the property at all, after it was rebuilt?

I received 6 months rental reimbursement from the insuran...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:26 GMT

I received 6 months rental reimbursement from the insurance but no- the house was not rented after the rebuild

You need to look in the Assets/Depreciation section to ge...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:28 GMT

You need to look in the Assets/Depreciation section to get the total amount of depreciation taken on the property.
Basically, you're going to delete the rental property asset listed, and replace it with a new listing.
Your "cost" of this asset will be as follows:
What you paid for the rebuid, and DO include in that amount what the insurance company paid, plus the cost of the land that you originally had allocated to the land portion in the original asset listing, plus the amount of depreciation taken on the structure prior to the fire.
So for the total amount you will enter in the COST box, it's
What you paid for the rebuild
    PLUS
What you allocated as value to the land on the original asset entry for the rental property
    PLUS
The amount of depreciation taken on the property prior to the fire.
Let's use some actual numbers here.
Originally paid $100,000 for the property. When I entered it into TurboTax in the COST box I entered $100,000. Then in the COST OF LAND box, $30K of that $100K was for the land. So I entered $30K in the COST OF LAND box. The program does the math and deprecated $70 for the structure over 27.5 years.
Now I'm 10 years in and the house burns to the ground. Total loss. At this point, I have taken a total of $25,500 in depreication on the house over the last 10 years.
Cost to rebuild was $150K. So I select the "Add an Asset" button in the program. I'll probably enter "new construction" or something like that for the description. Then for the cost box here's the math.
What I paid for the rebuild -------------------------------$150,000
Amount allocated to land ORIGINALLY -------------- $30,000
Amount of depreciation already taken prior to fire- $25,500
TOTAL -------------------------------------------------------$205,500  (This is the amount to be entered in the COST box)
For COST OF LAND box, you take the original cost for that and add the depreciation already taken to it. So using my numbers above the COST OF LAND box will have $55,500 entered in it.
Now, depreciation will start anew and it's gets depreciated over 27.5 years starting from the "in service" date you will enter (discussed below).
Now here's the tricky part. I'm assuming this rebuild was completed in 2017. If so, then this isn't so "tricky" really. You know that part of your insurance payout that was for "lost rent"? Well guess what? It's taxable income to you. You have to report it and pay taxes on it.
Make the "in service" date for the property, the day the CO (certificate of occupancy) was issued. Then when you get to it, enter the rental income received from the insurance company and press on.
For the original asset (the one that burned down) you need to delete it from the Assets/Deprecation section. All required information from that old asset has been transferred and accounted for in the new asset for this property.
Finally, finish working through the rental property "as if" you did not sell it. Once it all works out, let me know and I can provide you the details (which are easy in comparison to the above) necessary for you to report the sale of this property.

Great feedback. Thank you very much.

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:30 GMT

Great feedback. Thank you very much.

Basically what's happening here, is that you have to acco...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:33 GMT

Basically what's happening here, is that you have to account for the depreication already taken on the property prior to the fire. When you sell, all depreciation has to be recaptured and you pay taxes on that recaptured depreciation in the year you sell the property. So in order to account for that depreciation in 2017 without you having to recapture it ant pay taxes on it in 2017, you add that depreciation to the cost of the land. As you know, land is depreciable. So by doing this you "account" for that depreciation, and you won't pay taxes on it until the year you sell the property. Since you sold it in 2017, this all "works out in the wash" for you just perfect.
After doing all the above, the answer box below is how you will report the sale. You'll just work through the Rental & Royalty Income (SCH E) section again and use the guidance below to report the sale. Piece 'o cake!

Thank you very much. That makes perfect sense.

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:34 GMT

Thank you very much. That makes perfect sense.

Carl- checking my 2015 return and there is no breakdown f...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:35 GMT

Carl- checking my 2015 return and there is no breakdown for the depreciation of the land and the house itself. Both values are lumped together apparently.

The only way there's no breakdown, is if you entered noth...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:37 GMT

The only way there's no breakdown, is if you entered nothing, or a zero for the value of the land. Why are you looking at the 2015 return anyway? That will not give you the figures you need. In what year did the house burn? In what year were you issued the CO after the rebuild? I'm concerned, because there may be some assumptions I'm making that may be wrong.

I got the house via a quitclaim on a landcontact to my br...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:38 GMT

I got the house via a quitclaim on a landcontact to my brother in 2006. It's a piece of crap 400 sq ft house so maybe there was neve a value associated with the structure? It burned Dec 24th 2015 and I decided to demolish the structure in Feb 2017 and rebuild. I got the occupancy permit in August 2017 and sold the new house in October 2017

Ah okay. So I was making some incorrect assumptions. The...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:40 GMT

Ah okay. So I was making some incorrect assumptions. The 2015 return is the one you want. On that return for 2015, did you show you converted the property from rental to personal use? Hopefully you did, so that depreciation stopped.
Am I correct in assuming you did not report anything concerning this property on your 2016 return?

No - I did not convert it to personal use because I still...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:41 GMT

No - I did not convert it to personal use because I still had renters and wasn't sure if the house was livable or repairable. So I filed 2016 with the house as being rented for the entire year.

That was a boo-boo actually. By the tax filing deadline (...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:42 GMT

That was a boo-boo actually. By the tax filing deadline (which was Apr 18 last year) you would have known by then. What I would suggest you do is one of two things (and doing it later won't prevent you from going ahead with your 2017 taxes). Either amend the 2015 tax return to show the property converted to personal use on Dec 31st of 2015. Or you can amend the 2016 return and show the property converted to personal use on Jan 1, 2016. You want to do this to stop depreciation for the entire 2016 tax year that you couldn't rent it out, even if you wanted to. WHen it comes time to sell the program (which you did in 2017) that year's worth of depreciation can hurt.
But first, lets see what the yearly depreciation is, to see if it's even worthwhile to you. I assume you have a printout of your 2015 return. If you don't, then open up the 2015 tax file (using TurboTax 2015 if you didn't save it in PDF format). What you need is the printout or PDF that shows you everything; worksheets and all. Not just the forms "required to filing" or the forms "to keep for your records". You want everything. The PDF could easily be over 100 pages too. So don't let that surprise you.
What you are looking for is the 2015 IRS Form 4562 for that property. There will be three of them for that property. One prints in portrait format, and the other two print in landscape format. Of the two that print landscape, you want the one titled "Depreciation and Amortization Report".
On that 4562 you will at a minimum, see the property itself listed there. If you've done any property improvements they will be listed also. Under the "cost - net of land" column is the value of the structure. The "land" column shows the value of the land.
The "prior depreciation" column shows the amount of deprecation taken *BEFORE* 2015. Then the "current deprecation" column shows the deprecation taken *IN* 2015. In order to get the total depreciation taken, you have to add those last two columns together. That total is what you have to recapture and pay taxes on, in the year you sell the property.
Now we've been looking at the 2015 return. So in order to get the "correct" figure, if you deprecated it in 2016 (which would have been a bad idea since there is no rental income in 2016 to take that depreciation against) you need that same 4562 from the 2016 tax return.
What's the current year's deprecation you see on the 2015 form 4562? Let's see if this is worth an amendment or not.

Carl, I don't think I need to amend anything. The propert...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:44 GMT

Carl, I don't think I need to amend anything. The property was rented through December 2016. Even though the fire occurred that same month. I may have misspoke the date earlier. The cost ( net of land) is $49776 which was the total cost of the property. 27.5 yr depreciation is $1810 per year with the prior depreciation of $15008.

If you didn't report your rental "at all" on the 2016 ret...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:45 GMT

If you didn't report your rental "at all" on the 2016 return, then you will have to enter everything manually on the 2017 return. If the figures you quoted are off the 2015 form 4562, then when entering the data in the 2017 program the prior year's depreciation already taken will be the sum of $15,008 plus the $1810 in depreciation for the 2015 tax year. The reason that number needs to be right, is because you have to recapture that depreciation and pay taxes on it, in the year you sell the property. If it's wrong, you can bet your sweet bippy the IRS will catch it (usually 2-3 years after you file) and audit you on it.
If you did "NOT" report the rental at all on the 2016 return to show it's conversion to personal use, then at this point I really wouldn't worry about it. Don't recapture depreciation for 2016, since it wasn't rented out in 2016. Then, if you do get audited on that, all you have to do is amend the 2016 return to convert the property to personal use on Jan 1, 2016. That stops the depreciation. Of course, then you'll have to amend the 2017 return just to "show" you converted it back to rental property on the date the CO was issued.

The property WAS rented throughout 2016 and was declared...

jrpriest541 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:46 GMT

The property WAS rented throughout 2016 and was declared as such. For that matter the insurance reimbursed me for 6 months rent so realistically it was rented through June 2017. I don't see why you want me to declare it as personal use any earlier than that date.

If the rental income for the time between the burn date a...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:48 GMT

If the rental income for the time between the burn date and the date the CO was issued for the new construction was covered by the insurance, then you're right. There's really no need for tax purposes, to convert it to personal use at all. So you'll use the figures on the 4562 from the 2017 return you're completing now. I'm assuming you reported it as a rental for the entire 2016 tax year and showed it as rented all year weather you reported any rental income for 2016 or not. Normally, periods of vacancy between renters also counts as "days rented" too, even though you don't receive income for that short period of vacancy between tenants.
Sounds to me like this will be easier than I imagined if my assumptions are correct, or at least somewhat close.
- The property is shown as rented for all of 2016, regardless of the rental income received.
- Depreciation was claimed for all of 2016 (even though it may not have all been deductible, due to the reduced rental income received in 2016 - even if no income was received at all, really.)
Then on the 2017 return all you're really doing is entering the property as a new asset where you add all the prior depreciation (do not include any depreciation already claimed for 2017) to the value of the land. You don't include the 2017 depreciation because you're going to be deleting that old asset, after you get all the numbers from it for the new construction asset. Besides, neither asset was "in service" before the CO issue date anyway.
Just make sure the "in service" date of the new construction asset is not a date before the CO was issued, and you should be fine.

I have a similar situation and I am confused by this answ...

txrands84 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:49 GMT

I have a similar situation and I am confused by this answer. Everything I've read says to decrease the basis by depreciation, and your saying increase it. If I do this it will lower the gain, and therefore the taxes.

Your comment also says "Do include the insurance...". Can...

txrands84 — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:52 GMT

Your comment also says "Do include the insurance...". Can you direct me to the IRS instructions that allow this?

I think you're just not "getting it" yet. Took me awhile...

Carl — Tue, 04 Jun 2019 20:39:54 GMT

I think you're just not "getting it" yet. Took me awhile before I got it to. Basically you're recapturing the depreciation by adding it to the value of the land. Then you pay your taxes on that depreciation when you report the loss and insurance payout in the Casualty & Thefts section. It's important to click the links in the Casualty & Thefts section and read them. It tells you that you will reduce your loss by the amount of depreciation taken. That makes the "depreciation part" of the insurance payout taxable income. The program also gives you the option to defer paying taxes on that gain until the year you sell the property too, if you want. Remember, when reporting it in the Casualty & Thefts section you are NOT claiming a total loss of what you paid for the property. You DID NOT lose the land. Your loss, is the value of the structure ONLY, minus the depreciation already taken on it.