topic how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting in Business & farm

how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 19:56:16 GMT

Hi All, confused by form 709 re gifting my son on excess of $18,000 gift in 2024. Form 709 asks in part ll tax computation section 1. enter the amount from schedule A , Part 4 , line 11. But that section is for gifting to charities. I gifted my son $28,000 in 2024. But it seems that schedule A doesn't address gifting to another person only charities yet form 709 references schedule A.

I understand the standard exclusion for 2024 is $18,000 which results in a net gift for reporting purposes of $10,000. So do I ignore section part ll of form 709and fill out page 1, page 3 and schedule B as I have previously gifted my daughter money in excess of the standard exclusion about 5 yrs ago then just mail in form 709 just filling out page 1, page 3 and schedule B and mail to the IRS skipping the charity section and nothing else needs to be filled out in my actual tax return including schedule A ?

Thanks for any help

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 20:19:22 GMT

I've prepared quite a few of these forms and you have me thoroughly confused.

Why do you believe Schedule A is strictly for charitable gifts? It is definitely not. In the event you are trying to prepare the form manually, you can go ahead and give it your best shot, but you would be well advised to use tax preparation software, such as that listed below (or have the return professionally prepared).

https://www.puritas-springs.com/product-category/federal

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 20:33:47 GMT

I don't think you read my question correctly, i do reference form 709 part ll asking about Schedule A part 4 line 11 but clearly my son isn't a charity which is the heading of that section. I also reference Im using turbo tax deluxe for filing in the dropped down box, Instead of giving my static , you could tell me how you dealt with the issue that you have said you have done so many times.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Wed, 19 Feb 2025 00:00:15 GMT

@nofan wrote:
I also reference Im using turbo tax deluxe for filing in the dropped down box.......

What does Turbotax Deluxe have to do with anything? Turbotax does NOT support Form 709 in any way, shape or form. Are you referring to Schedule A in Form 1040?

Also, Part II of Form 709 is the tax computation section (where you should owe nothing) and has nothing to do with charitable gifts.

Here's the relevant section (Part 1) of Schedule A in Form 709.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Tue, 18 Feb 2025 23:34:37 GMT

my confusion was regarding schedule A reference as I was thinking the 1040 schedule A not realizing there was the schedule A on form 709. Further confusing was my research had indicated that the actual 1040 return doesn't involve stating any gifting to individuals. As I have glaucoma and a damage retina my vision is poor so I missed the schedule A heading on the 709 form. But your obnoxious attitude isn't called for, if you think I'm lame then just don't respond to my question.

But here is a question you can ask yourself, why the hostility and obnoxious interaction with a stranger who was asking nicely and you had to assume issues not present. You know what they say about YOU assuming and what it makes you.

But thanks for the bitter info !!

and do all off us a favor and don't come back to this site, you and us will all be happier for that.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 01:06:00 GMT

Hello there!

I am hoping you can let me know how you found Schedule A for Form 709 for 2024??

The 2024 Form 709 I got online does NOT have a Schedule A on it and I am not finding any other Schule A's online (IRS site) other than the 1040 Schedule A.

Thank you for any information you can share!

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 01:28:39 GMT

KM -8, perfect example of government taking a simple thing and making it rocket science . 8 pages long is 7 pages too long 😵‍💫😵‍💫. It threw me for a loop- as well. I missed it cuz the title Schedule A heading is in mice type as is schedule B which is what you may need to complete for schedule A. A very rude “helper “ pointed it out to me in his response to my same question so you may refer to that as he highlighted it in yellow. However, Schedule A is on page 3 and schedule B is on page 7. Prepare for a headache wading through the 8 pages and figuring it out . I did my best then sent it to my nephew who is a CPA and does taxes, still waiting for his response but it’s just been 2 days. I had previously gifted monies to my daughter which required that history to be filled in on the form. Let me know if you get as confused as I was dealing with it, when I hear back from my nephew how to complete it properly I will pass that info on to you.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 02:14:12 GMT

@KM-8

Here's the link:

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f709.pdf

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 05:26:14 GMT

Thank you!

I'm not sure why only Page 1 and 2 were showing up for me and not the remainder of the pages with all the Schedules.

Two more quick 709 questions for you...

For Schedule A part 1... If I gave a gift of equity (cash), would the amounts for (e) "Donor's adjusted base of gift" and (g) "Value at date of gift" be the same?

Do you know if I need to include mailing Schedules B, C, and D if I did not have any information on them?

Thankyou for any input you may have!

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 07:28:28 GMT

For cash, the figures in those columns would be the same.

Send in the entire form.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 13:10:58 GMT

M-MTax,

Thank you once again for the information!!

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 13:14:28 GMT

Nofan, thank you for your reply!

I, too, had been quite confused, since when I first printed out the Form 709, I only got parts 1, 2, and 3.

So I had no idea there were other forms/schedules that came along with it.

Then when everything online kept referring to Schedule A, it was no where to be found when I searched for 709 Schedule A.

And I, like you, saw that the Schedule A for 1040 did not look appropriate for the 709.

When I used the link provided by M-MTax last night, it took me right to the entire set of 709 forms. Who knows how I only got access to the first portion of the 709 and not the entire set of forms?:/

Definitely a bit confusing filling this out.

I was surprised today when my tax preparer responded to my asking questions about Form 709 by saying "Nope, I decided early in my career that I was not going to have anything to do with 709s".

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 15:34:30 GMT

hmm, maybe another tax preparer is needed . Don’t think the IRS regs allows one to decide their on set of rules as too what they will comply with. 😎 May not be a problem for you but for your heirs and executor of your estate. And there is the issue that if money is transferred electronically from one bank account to another when you get to the $10,000 range and above banks are required to report that to the feds as it could indicate illegal activities or shady deals. And if It’s done with multiple Transfers, under $10,000 that appear to be trying to escape underneath the $10,000 threshold that,Can raise scrutiny as well. When I get my paperwork back from my nephew, if you’re still unsure, I’ll let you know how it worked out for me, but my situation may be different because I also had the prior gifting to my daughter from previous years

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 16:48:39 GMT

I don't have any connection with this firm, but you might want to check out their software package for Form 709.

https://www.puritas-springs.com/product-category/federal

If you wouldn't consider preparing your 1040 manually (without using income tax preparation software, such as TurboTax), then you should most likely not consider preparing a 709 manually.

As a footnote, prior (taxable) gifting (i.e., above the annual exclusion) only serves to add more complexity to the equation.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

nofan — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 18:38:39 GMT

M-MTAX, Thank you for the response and information. I do agree that adding prior gifting from previous years complicates issues on the form however I don’t feel so easy rolling the dice with not reporting it as potentially depending on who is doing the reviewing or automation checking prior returns could flag it for further review and the rest of my return. Prior administration was ramping up It’s IRS scrutiny the current one may be doing the reverse, but I’d rather do it right from the get-go and minimize the odds of having to deal with it again. Thanks again for forwarding the information. I’ll look it over tonight and I’ll wait to hear what my nephew has to say on this matter.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Wed, 26 Feb 2025 18:55:19 GMT

@nofan wrote:
....I don’t feel so easy rolling the dice with not reporting it......

@nofan

In no way was I suggesting, nor would I every suggest, that you NOT report it nor fail to properly and completely prepare the 709 prior to filing. I'm sorry if you interpreted anything in post to the contrary.

Since the IRS retains these things seemingly forever, it's a good idea and prudent to seek advice and guidance from a local professional who is familiar with estates and trusts including the entire gift tax schema.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 01:37:41 GMT

Hello again M-MTax,

I thought I was set and had the form figured out, but I am now confused by one specific part.

As I read through the instructions for Form 709....

Under Part II—Tax Computation (Page 1 of Form 709)
and Pertaining to line 7
The instructions say...
The applicable credit (formerly unified credit) amount is the tentative tax on the applicable exclusion amount. For gifts made in 2024, the applicable exclusion amount equals:
• The basic exclusion amount of $13,610,000, PLUS
• Any DSUE amount, PLUS
• Any Restored Exclusion Amount.

It then says....

Determine the tentative tax on the applicable exclusion amount using the rates in the Table for Computing Gift Tax, and enter the result on line 7.

My question/confusion is ... Do I put the basic exclusion amount of $13,610,000 on Line 7

do I put (from the Table for Computing Gift Tax) the amount based on taking Column A ($1,000,000) and then add together the tax (on that Column A amount) of $345,800 (from Column C) PLUS the 40% (from Column D) on the additional 12,610,000 ...which would be $5,044,000???

I originally thought I should put the $13,610,000 amount, but now I'm wondering why they said to use the Table for Computing Gift Tax??

Any thoughts on this??

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

M-MTax — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 02:12:57 GMT

@KM-8

It is indeed confusing, but you do not enter the $13.6 million figure on that line (which is the lifetime exclusion amount - currently).

Rather, you enter the credit as per the table.

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

KM-8 — Thu, 27 Feb 2025 03:01:53 GMT

Thank you for that clarification!

Then as long as I'm understanding the table correctly, I should be good to go!

Have a great night!

Re: how to fill out schedule A for form 709 gifting

Lukester1980 — Thu, 24 Apr 2025 16:31:55 GMT

Nofan, I am right there with you regarding the confusion. I got a letter from the IRS rejecting my Form 709 as not being complete. Like you, our gift was a simple cash gift to a child. We did not submit Parts 2,3, 4 and they were not applicable and blank. Took me forever (and a call to the IRS) to figure out they were referencing Schedule A of Form 709, and NOT Schedule A of my 1040. The fact that Turbo Tax does not support Form 709 electronically did not help at all either. You are not alone in this confusion.