topic It makes a big difference because the support rule is dif... in Get your taxes done using TurboTax

Can I claim my 24 year old disabled child who receives SSI as a dependent?

zinsco — Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:54:39 GMT

Others have said yes because SSI income is not reported on ANY tax return. But don't you have to provide more than 50% support for them to qualify as a dependent? Even though SSI may not have to be reported, those who receive SSI have to spend it or it gets suspended. There for if they receive $864 a month and spend it, there is no way a parent could prove providing 51% support. Please explain, thank you.

Is it really ssi or regular SS or SSDI? Those are 3 diff...

VolvoGirl — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:33 GMT

Is it really ssi or regular SS or SSDI? Those are 3 different things. Does she get a SSA-1099 for it?

It makes a difference whether he has Social Security dis...

Hal_Al — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:36 GMT

It makes a difference whether he has Social Security disability Income (SSDI) or Supplemental Security Income (SSI). SSDI is his money and SSI is third party support (welfare)

ssi

crystalaustin197 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:38 GMT

ssi

permanent and total disabled are considered qualifying ch...

maglib — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:39 GMT

permanent and total disabled are considered qualifying children regardless of age so as long as they did NOT provide more than half their own support and that's vague when the child lives in the parents home.. My mother claims my sister and my sister has a trust with unearned income, she lives in my mothers home and does not pay rent, so regardless of her income, my sister does NOT provide over half of her own support even with SSD she receives. My mother benefits as HOH. She has claimed my sister who is 53 years old. Her unearned income has reached in some years due to the trust from $20k-$120k and still my mom claims her as again there is no rent. My sister uses her money for personal purposes and savings as some day my mom won't be there and my sister will have to live off the trust and her savings.

There are two types of dependents. Your son can be a qual...

Opus 17 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:41 GMT

There are two types of dependents.

Your son can be a qualifying child dependent if he is 1) permanently and totally disabled, and 2) if he provided less than half his own support. A child is permanently and totally disabled if both of the following apply.

•He or she can't engage in any substantial gainful activity because of a physical or mental condition.

•A doctor determines the condition has lasted or can be expected to last continuously for at least a year or can lead to death.

This determination is separate from any determination made by any other agency. (For example, my college has a senior faculty member who is a quadriplegic but is still gainfully employed running the hospital, and is therefore not disabled for tax purposes.)

For the support test, both SSI and SSDI are usually considered support provided by the child, but not always. The dilemma is explained here. http://www.stepnowskilaw.com/DependentExemption.html. Note that the IRS says both " If a child receives social security benefits and uses them toward his or her own support, the benefits are considered as provided by the child" and also "payments based on the needs of the recipient won't be considered as used entirely for that person's support if it is shown that part of the payments weren't used for that purpose."

However, if the child is not permanently and totally disabled, they can not be a qualifying child dependent. They might be a qualifying relative dependent. To be a qualifying relative dependent, the child has to have taxable income less than $4,000, and you must provide more than half of the child's support. Note that this support test is different than for qualifying child. It doesn't matter where the child's support comes from (government, church, grandparents, other charities, etc.) You need to pay more than half of the total, no matter where the rest comes from. There is a worksheet in publication 501 to help you calculate the child's living expenses and whether you provide more than half. You can include a share of rent or mortgage and home utilities as will as the more obvious expenses. https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf

Note to the customer, I modified my answer. If you recei...

Opus 17 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:42 GMT

Note to the customer, I modified my answer. If you received my answer as an email, check online for the update.

You completely changed your answer. First you said, "For...

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:43 GMT

You completely changed your answer. First you said, "For the support test, support provided by the government counts as support provided by the government, not by the child, so it does not cause the child to provide more than half of his own support." Now you say, "If a child receives social security benefits and uses them toward his or her own support, the benefits are considered as provided by the child." Which is it?

Sorry, I did some further research. See page 15 and page...

Opus 17 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:47 GMT

Sorry, I did some further research.  See page 15 and page 20 here, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf">https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p501.pdf</a>
"Support provided by the state (welfare, food benefits, housing, etc.)."

SSDI is taxable because it is in the place of taxable wages and is only provided to people who have worked enough credits.  Therefore it is handled as taxable wages, although most recipients don't get enough to actually go over the personal exemption and standard deduction.  That makes SSDI "support provided by the child" without question.

SSI is strictly need based.  That would make SSI "support provided by the government."  However, as noted in this article, SSI will be reduced if your child receives support from you, unless you enter into a calculation with the government to show the child as paying their fair share of living expenses.  <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.stepnowskilaw.com/DependentExemption.html">http://www.stepnowskilaw.com/DependentExemption.html</a>

That creates a complex situation. If you tell social security that your child is living with you and you are taking care of him, that reduces his need and may reduce his need based payments.  If you tell the government that he is paying for his own rent, utilities, etc. (either living on his own or as an equal share of your expenses), then that increases his need and keeps the SSI payments high, but shows to the government that he is "paying his own way."  I have found various web sites go both ways on SSI, that it does or does not count toward "paying half his own expenses."

I see above that @Hal_Al might have a different opinion from mine on SSI.

None of this matters if his expenses are high enough.  You need to start with the chart on page 16 of publication 501.  Add up the expenses for the entire household (rent, utilities, food, repairs).  If you own, you don't include mortgage and property taxes; instead, you use the fair market rental value -- what someone would pay to rent a similar home in that neighborhood.  Divide all those household expenses by the number of people living there.  Then add his personal expenses (clothes, medical costs not covered by insurance, recreation, etc.)

Since his benefit is $864 a month, then if his total living expenses are more than $1729 per month, then you pay more than half, and he does NOT pay more than half, no matter what kind of dependent he is or how the SSI is counted.

If his living expenses are less than $1729 and his income is SSDI, then he pays more than half and he is not a dependent.  If his living expenses are less than $1729 and his income is SSI, then it is still probably "support provided by him" because of the use it or lose it nature of the payment, as you first described.  However, there are some web sites that claim that you don't have to include SSI as support, so you could follow that and hope you don't get audited.

And finally, while I read a lot, and have answered over 10,000 tax questions on this forum over the years, I'm really just a stranger on the internet.  For a definitive answer you should look for an accountant or enrolled agent who handles disability issues.

Pasted in wrong link, fixed.

Opus 17 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:49 GMT

Pasted in wrong link, fixed.

Ya, she pays $360 a month (fair share) so that her SSI is...

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:50 GMT

Ya, she pays $360 a month (fair share) so that her SSI is not reduced but I really don't understand how that matters. Either the money from SSI is considered her supporting herself or not. If she receives $864 and doesn't give me anything she is still spending it and therefore supporting herself. If she pays me $360 for expenses out of what the government gives her, how is that any different? It still comes from the government.

Oh, and just to let everyone know, yes it is SSI not SSDI...

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:51 GMT

Oh, and just to let everyone know, yes it is SSI not SSDI, or SS and there is no 1099

She pays you $360 for what exactly? Rent?

SweetieJean — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:53 GMT

She pays you $360 for what exactly? Rent?

No rent, it is called (fair share). You take the house o...

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:55 GMT

No rent, it is called (fair share). You take the house old expenses and divide by the number of people in the home and that number is her fair share.

Although I cannot quote a source; I have always understoo...

Hal_Al — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:57 GMT

Although I cannot quote a source; I have always understood that SSI is third party support and therefore not considered as provided by the potential Qualifying Child dependent. I would claim the dependent

Thank you @Hal_Al, I found someone saying basically the s...

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:46:59 GMT

Thank you @Hal_Al, I found someone saying basically the same thing here: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2890740-my-adult-son-receives-ssi-in-determining-if-he-qualifies-as-a-dependent-do-i-include-his-ssi-in-the-financial-support-requirement-of-providing-50-or-more-of-his-support">https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/2890740-my-adult-son-receives-ssi-in-determining-if-he-qualifies-as-a-dependent-do-i-include-his-ssi-in-the-financial-support-requirement-of-providing-50-or-more-of-his-support</a>

I wish someone had an official source from the IRS to quote on this, but it's sounding to me like it's a bit of a grey area. Does anyone have an official documented source on this?

Also, as @Opus 17 posted ( @Opus 17 posted ( <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.stepnowskilaw.com/DependentExemption.html">http://www.stepnowskilaw.com/DependentExemption.html</a> ) it would seem the courts have not decided. The article said, "even if the court could rule whether the Social Security benefits could be treated as support he supplied, an issue the court did not decide." Basically, it was a moot point because the mother had payed more than 50% anyway.

I agree it seems to be a gray area, or a case-by-case are...

Opus 17 — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:47:02 GMT

I agree it seems to be a gray area, or a case-by-case area.

If the child pays $360 as "fair share", what is the other $500 spent on?

If the SSA determined that $360 is support "she pays" and the rest is not, maybe that is good enough for the IRS. Then you only need to show that his actual living expenses are more than $721.

You may still want to go through the entire pub 501 worksheet, it may make this all a moot point.

The $500 goes to her car payment and online college tuition.

zinsco — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:47:04 GMT

The $500 goes to her car payment and online college tuition.

That "someone saying basically the same thing" was just...

Hal_Al — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 00:47:05 GMT

That "someone saying basically the same thing" was just Me again. So, that doesn't count as confirmation.