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pilkman4b
New Member

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Wife and I are retired. I've got a zillion shares of a stock I bought long ago and no longer wish to own.  Cashed out $118,000 (profit) this year so far in 2018 but would really like to sell a great deal more. I'm happy to pay 15% cap gains tax on everything over $101,000 but I wonder if there's some amount I might cash in that would cause me to have to pay tax on the first 101,000 as well.  Say I declared a $500,000 profit on the sale of shares?

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Accepted Solutions
rjs
Level 15
Level 15

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Please clarify the amount of earned income. It's not clear what "$10,00" is. It makes a big difference, because your long-term capital gains are "stacked" on top of your ordinary income when calculating the tax. The brackets apply to your total taxable income, not just long-term gain. For example, suppose your ordinary income is $100,000. That's all of your ordinary income, not just earned income. Subtracting the $24,000 standard deduction for married filing jointly gives you taxable ordinary income of $76,000. For married filing jointly in 2018, the 15% rate on long-term gain starts at $77,200. So the $76,000 of taxable ordinary income uses up most of the lower brackets. The first $1,200 of long-term gain uses up the rest of the bracket, and is taxed at 0%. All the rest of the long-term gain is taxed at 15% (as long as you don't go over the $479,000 break point). So the first $101,000 of long-term gain is only tax-free if you have no other income. Any ordinary income counts against the $101,000 range before the long-term rates are applied.

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19 Replies

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Any other unearned income? Social Security? Pension? IRA? 401(k)?

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

rjs
Level 15
Level 15

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Please clarify the amount of earned income. It's not clear what "$10,00" is. It makes a big difference, because your long-term capital gains are "stacked" on top of your ordinary income when calculating the tax. The brackets apply to your total taxable income, not just long-term gain. For example, suppose your ordinary income is $100,000. That's all of your ordinary income, not just earned income. Subtracting the $24,000 standard deduction for married filing jointly gives you taxable ordinary income of $76,000. For married filing jointly in 2018, the 15% rate on long-term gain starts at $77,200. So the $76,000 of taxable ordinary income uses up most of the lower brackets. The first $1,200 of long-term gain uses up the rest of the bracket, and is taxed at 0%. All the rest of the long-term gain is taxed at 15% (as long as you don't go over the $479,000 break point). So the first $101,000 of long-term gain is only tax-free if you have no other income. Any ordinary income counts against the $101,000 range before the long-term rates are applied.

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

and keep in mind that other forms of unearned income (such as retirement benefits) are usually taxable.

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Where did you get the number $101,000 from , and why would you think it is not taxed?
I wouldn't sell any more stock this year if you wish to minimize taxes, unless you have other stock holdings that are showing a loss.

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Probably this:
$118,000 + $10,000 = 128,000
minus Standard Deduction (both age 65+) of $26,600
equals Taxable Income of $101,400

"Wife and I are retired"

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

@pilkman4b
Is the first $101K tax free? NO.
 <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxes/capital-gains-tax-rates/">https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/taxe...>
rjs
Level 15
Level 15

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

I assume the $101,000 is the $24,000 standard deduction for MFJ (neither spouse 65 or older) plus the $77,200 top of the 0% capital gains bracket for MFJ. OP assumed that the long-term gain would go in the lowest bracket. He didn't know about stacking.
pilkman4b
New Member

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Thanks for taking the time.  Much appreciated and needed.  I am 68, have not claimed Social Security.  I make about $10,000 a year from author's royalities.  The $118,000 was all profits from selling stock at $50 I bought at $3.  I have sold lesser amounts in the past, ever been taxed nothing except on the author's income.  I heard the 0% tax bracket was based solely on earned income, so I could earn $77000 and just pay taxes on the 10,000 author's income get 67000 free, plus another 24,000 personal deduction would bring it to about 101,000 I could earn and just pay taxes on the author's income and then pay 15% on any excess.
pilkman4b
New Member

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

Please forgive my not being at your level.  May I ask if the takeaway from what you wrote, especially rjs, was that we will have to pay tax on the $10,000 earned income, we will get the next $91,000 in Long Term Capital Gains tax free, and we will pay  15% tax on the next $17,000?

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

I ran a trial tax return on your situation. It came to about $3,000 to $4,000 of federal income tax, approximately.

State tax extra. In state of NJ for example, your large capital gain would cost you the pension exclusion, your state tax could exceed your federal tax.
rjs
Level 15
Level 15

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

@pilkman4b - Unfortunately the situation is a lot more complicated than you or I would like. At this point I can't give you an exact calculation of your 2018 tax.

One of the complications is that the IRS has not yet published the forms and instructions for calculating the tax on long-term capital gains for 2018. To answer your question about the "takeaway" I have to make a guess about how it will work, based on the way the tax on long-term capital gains is calculated for 2017 and earlier. Based on that I would say that the "takeaway" that you described is not exactly right. I can't give you exact figures because of some other complications, but it's clear that your taxable income will be less than your long-term gain. See below for some details on taxable income. Again, based on the way the calculation is done for 2017, the royalty income will effectively drop out, and all of your taxable income will be treated as long-term gain. In other words, you won't pay any income tax on the royalty income. There will be no tax on the first $77,200 of taxable income, and the rest will be taxed at 15%.

There are two complications in calculating your taxable income, because the information you have provided is incomplete. First of all, you have not said how old your wife is.

Another complication is that we don't know the nature of your royalty income. You didn't say whether you are the author of the works that you are getting royalties for, or someone else is the author. If you are the author, it is probably self-employment income, and therefore subject to self-employment tax in addition to regular income tax. There is an exception if you only ever wrote one book, as a sideline, and never revised it. If you are not the author - you are collecting royalties on works written by someone else - then it is not self-employment income. (And by the way, if the royalties are not self-employment income, they are not "earned income.") If it is self-employment income, there is an adjustment that affects your taxable income, based on the amount of self-employment tax.

Adding another complication, you said "we will get the next $91,000 in Long Term Capital Gains tax free, and we will pay 15% tax on the next $17,000?" But $91,000 plus $17,000 is only $108,000. You said your long-term gain was $118,000. I suspect that you subtracted the $10,000 of royalties twice. I will assume that $118,000 is the correct amount of long-term gain.

Here's an example of how taxable income would be calculated, but these figures might not be accurate for your situation, because of the complications I have described. The example is based on the following assumptions.

Married filing jointly. Taxpayer is over 65, spouse is under 65.
Royalties of $10,000 are self-employment income.
Long-term capital gain of $118,000.
No other income.
Standard deduction.

Taxable income is total income minus adjustments and the standard deduction.
Total income: $10,000 + $118,000 = $128,000
Adjustment, 1/2 of self-employment tax: - $707
Standard deduction (for one spouse over 65): - $25,300
Taxable income: $101,993

In this example, and based on my assumption about how the tax would be calculated, the income tax would be $3,719.
$101,993 - $77,200 = $24,793
$24,793 x 15% = $3,719

The self-employment tax on $10,000 is $1,413, so the total tax would be $3,719 + $1,413 = $5,132.

To go back to your original question, taking more capital gains will never make the first $77,200 taxable, as long as you don't have any other ordinary income. But if you take enough capital gains you will hit the top of the 15% bracket and any additional long-term gain will be taxed at 20%. In addition, long before you hit the 20% bracket, when your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) goes over $250,000 you will run into the Net Investment Income Tax which is an additional 3.8% tax on the investment income. Simplifying some complicated rules based on your particular situation, and assuming that the royalties are self-employment income, the additional 3.8% tax would apply to all your capital gains over $240,707.

Also note, as fanfare pointed out, that unless you are in a state with no income tax, your state tax will quite likely treat the long-term gain differently from the way the federal tax treats it.

I wish I could refer you to a web site or software that you could use to calculate your 2018 tax under different scenarios. But I haven't found one that takes all the factors into account and does the calculation correctly. Considering the amount of money involved, it might be worth it to you to consult a local tax professional who could give you detailed information about the effect of taking more capital gains.
pilkman4b
New Member

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

rjs: A THOUSAND THANK YOU'S FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE!
pilkman4b
New Member

Couple with earned income of $10,00, long term cap gains of $118,000.Is the first $101K tax free? Is there any amount of cap gains where 1st 101 would not be tax free?THX

I also want to say "Thank you" to fanfare and any others who helped me.
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