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Level 4
January 28, 2023
Solved

Federal return rejection Reject Code F8960-019-04 Processing error Form 8960, Net Investment Income Tax. We do not have an estimate for when the problem will be resolved

  • January 28, 2023
  • 570 replies
  • 2535 views

Description of error:
If Form 8960, 'NetRentalIncomeOrLossAmt' has a non-zero value, then it must be equal to Schedule 1 (Form 1040), 'RentalRealEstateIncomeLossAmt' unless all of the following conditions are true: 1) Filing status of the return is Married filing jointly or Qualifying widow(er) and 2) Form 8960, checkboxes 'Section6013gInd' and 'Section6013hInd' are not checked and 3) Form 8960, 'FilingThresholdAmt' equals 125000.
What needs to be done:
This return cannot be electronically filed due to a processing error on Form 8960, Net Investment Income Tax. At this time we do not have an estimate for when the problem will be resolved. You have two options: 1) you may wait a few weeks and attempt to resubmit this return, or 2) you may print and file the return by mail. This message will be updated when a resolution date is identified

Any idea how to correct this? Thanks!

Best answer by BligBlueLaser

[Updated Feb 17, 2023]

According to Turbo Tax: This issue will be resolved on February 19, 2023. On or after this resolution date you may resubmit this return for electronic filing.

 

[Updated Feb. 10, 2023 7:55AM EST]

Still no updates from the IRS, though TT employees are still suggesting to some users that an IRS fix is imminent.  Stay tuned...

 

Meanwhile two developments with HRB users: *many* of the people who claimed their filings were "accepted" at HRB are now receiving the exact same rejection - it just took longer to get rejected with HRB; and HRB appears to be completing Form 8960 correctly (deducting "non-passive" income on line 4b).

 

PLEASE READ THIS FIRST BEFORE COMMENTING

 

Why was my TurboTax e-file rejected by the IRS with Reject Code F8960-019-04?

 

THIS IS NOT A TURBOTAX ISSUE!

REPEAT, THIS IS NOT A TURBOTAX ISSUE!

ONCE MORE, THIS IS NOT A TURBOTAX ISSUE!

 

The IRS has confirmed a “Known Issue” in their systems which causes valid e-filings to be erroneously rejected. The issue can affect anyone filing Form 8960, regardless of which tax prep service they use.

 

From the IRS spreadsheet of 2022 "Known Issues":

 

Business Rules F8960-019-04 and F8960-003 may cause returns to erroneously reject. These business rules need to be modified to reflect the updates to the Instructions for Form 8960 (Tax Year 2022) regarding the Specific Instructions for Line 4a to include Schedule C (Form 1040) amounts reported on Schedule 1 (Form 1040), line 3 and Form 1041, line 3.

 

Only the IRS can fix this issue!

 

When will I be able to e-file my taxes? How will I know when the issue is fixed?

 

You may not be able to e-file until sometime between late February to mid-March 2023. There is no other answer. You must wait until the IRS fixes a known issue in their systems! Be patient!

 

From the latest IRS’s 2022 “Known Issues” spreadsheet (Row 74),: “Business Rules will be updated sometime in late February to mid-March 2023.”

 

I'll update this post when we know the issue is fixed, but the best way to know is to check the spreadsheet on the IRS’s website from time to time to see if there have been any updates.

 

Or you can wait for a notification from TurboTax that may never come...

 

CAUTION: A few folks have mentioned that the IRS has a limit of five (5) e-file attempts before requiring that you paper file, though it's not clear if that's true. Just in case, I recommend against hitting the "File My Taxes" button as a way of checking if the IRS has fixed the problem. Instead, check the IRS's "Known Issues" spreadsheet for updates, or check back here for updates.


But I know this is a TurboTax problem, not an IRS problem! I have the evidence…

 

Your evidence is wrong. The IRS says this is an IRS problem.

 

Open the IRS’s 2022 “Known Issues” spreadsheet and read Row 74.

 

But TurboTax review said I had no errors, and I was rejected anyway. Isn't that proof that TurboTax is the problem?

 

In a word: NO. The TurboTax review checks your tax return for errors. It does NOT review IRS systems for "Known Issues" and errors in their business rules.

 

Your return was rejected because of a "Known Issue" with IRS systems that results in erroneous rejections. The IRS specifically states this in their 2022 "Known Issues" spreadsheet (Row 74).

 

TurboTax stinks! I’m going to use H&R Block, TaxAct, FreeTaxUSA, etc.

 

MANY, MANY users of TaxAct, H&R Block, FreeTaxUSA, and other tax prep services are reporting the exact same erroneous rejection. If you’re receiving this rejection code with TurboTax, your ability to e-file will NOT be different with another tax prep service.

 

The problem is an IRS “Known Issue” – it is not a problem with any specific tax prep service.

 

But I just filed with H&R Block (or "H&R Block just accepted my return")

 

Are you sure your return was accepted by the IRS? Just because H&R Block didn't immediately throw an error/rejection, or said "accepted," does not mean the IRS has accepted/approved your return!

 

If you tried to use HRB, check Line 4b of your Form 8960 on H&R Block. If it is $0, see note for H&R Block users further down in this post.

 

Will the IRS accept my return if I delete my 1099s, or if I fudge the numbers, to avoid their faulty business rules?

 

A few folks have posted about avoiding the erroneous rejection by deleting 1099s (i.e. not reporting income), fudging numbers (e.g., entering fictitious rental income), or entering zeros (i.e., not following the instructions for Form 8960).

 

All of these things are bad ideas:

  • You would be knowingly filing a false return
  • If you want to keep it honest, you'll have to amend your return later
  • There is no guarantee that any of these schemes will get your return accepted by the IRS

You'll be able to e-file within just a few weeks (or sooner). Be patient. Tax fraud is not the answer.

 

A TurboTax employee told me to delete Form 8960, or change Line 4a/4b to $0, and then try to e-file again

 

Sadly many TT employees don't seem to know what they're talking about. Any advice other than, "You must wait for the IRS to fix the issue" is bad advice. It is very likely that your Form 8960 has been filled in correctly by TurboTax. The problem is probably not with your Form 8960.

 

If I can’t e-file now, I'll just file my return by mail

 

This is probably a very, very bad idea!

 

Paper filers are experiencing extraordinary delays - of two years or more – for getting their returns processed and refunds issued. Don’t you think it’s a better idea to be patient and wait until the IRS fixes this particular problem?

 

Why is TurboTax filing Form 8960? I don’t have rental income (or any other reasons you think you don’t need this form)

 

The error code “NetRentalIncomeOrLossAmt” from your rejection notice is misleading - it is not a literal description of what Form 8960 is used for. Do not take it literally!

 

In all likelihood, TurboTax is including Form 8960 because you are required to file Form 8960!

 

According to the 2022 Form 8960 instructions from the IRS (page 1), you are REQUIRED to file this form if your MAGI (generally the same as AGI, found on Line 11 of your 1040) exceeds one of the following thresholds:

  • Married Filing Jointly or Qualifying Widow(er) is $250,000.
  • Married Filing Separately is $125,000.
  • Single or Head of Household is $200,000.

If Line 11 of your 1040 exceeds the amount above, you MUST file Form 8960.


Why is my Schedule C income/loss included on Line 4a? That’s not rental income!

 

TurboxTax is completing Form 8960 correctly!

Repeat, TurboxTax is completing Form 8960 correctly!

 

TurboTax includes your Schedule C income on Form 8960 Line 4a because the IRS instructions for Line 4a (page 6) say you must include your Schedule C income on Line 4a. This is a new requirement as of TY2022, and the IRS's failure to update its systems with this new requirement is why your return was rejected.

 

Also note, any non-passive portion of that income/loss should be subtracted on Line 4b (see page 6 of the IRS instructions). Your Schedule C income/loss is “non-passive” if it is from a business in which you actively participate. If your non-passive income is NOT deducted on Line4b, you will pay the 3.8% Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) on the Line 4a amount even though it is not subject to the NIIT.

 

H&R Block users should read the special note at the bottom of this reply.

 

TurboTax stinks! “I want a refund” or “I’m calling my credit card company to reverse the charges”

 

First you should ask yourself these questions:

 

  • Do I understand that users of all tax prep services (H&R Block, TaxAct, FreeTaxUSA, et.al.) are getting the same rejection because the IRS has not fixed this “Known Issue” with IRS systems?
  • Do I really want to re-enter my tax data with a different tax prep service when I am likely to be rejected there as well?
  • If I get a refund from TurboTax, what tax prep service am I going to use to file my 2022 taxes?

 

Attention H&R Block Users

 

Although this seems to be fixed (or maybe it was never broken?), there were several anecdotal reports that H&R Block software was not subtracting "non-passive" Schedule C income on Line 4b, which would result in a 3.8% Net Investment Income Tax (NIIT) being levied on income that is not subject to this tax. Compare your HRB and TT Forms 8960 - especially Lines 4a, 4b, and Line 17 (NIIT owed) - to be sure you're not paying too much.

570 replies

Level 4
January 28, 2023

See post above by @BligBlueLaser 

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I got the same error and never heard of it until today.  Curious what we find out and how to fix it within application.  My guess is that is a programming error in application.

Level 2
January 28, 2023

Has to be a programming error. After days of waiting received the same error message. I have no rental income thus no need for form 8960. Tried to go into Tools (Online Version) and delete Form 8960 and resubmit. This time IRS response was within 30 minutes. Same exact error.....blah blah blah Form 8960. So the Delete Form function clearly doesn't work as well. 

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I have the same issue. and i don't have any rental property period so i have no clue on this either.. so much for filling early 

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I am having the save issue. I have no rental income yet the amount in 4a is being populated with self employment income. 

Schedule 1 does not have this amount, so causing rejection. 

will this be fixed?

Level 2
January 28, 2023

Upon review, instructions to Form 8960 require the inclusion of 1040 Schedule 1, items 3 and 5, in Form 8960 item 4(a).  As such, this is not a Turbotax issue.

 

See instructions to Form 8960, page 6 - https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i8960.pdf.

 

That said, I reviewed the IRS website for known issues and solution dates.  The issues is known by the IRS and there is a resolution date of 2/5/2023.  Once fixed by the IRS, we should all be able to file.  

 

See - https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/known-issues-and-solutions (known issues). which notes: as "Business Rules F8960-019-04 and F8960-003 may cause returns to erroneously reject. These business rules need to be modified to reflect the updates to the Instructions for Form 8960 (Tax Year 2022) regarding the Specific Instructions for Line 4a to include Schedule C (Form 1040) amounts reported on Schedule 1 (Form 1040), line 3 and Form 1041, line 3."

Level 4
January 28, 2023

Thank you so much for that valuable intel!!!

 

Hopefully, the TurboTax support group will become aware of this so they can respond to people who contact them with the issue in an appropriate manner.

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I keep getting the same code. I’ve been up now for 24 hours trying to figure out why I’m getting this rejection code and no one seems to have the answers. Hopefully we get answers soon because this is unreal 

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I have the same issue. I do have rental income but I've had rental income for years without this issue before. I spoke to 6 different reps over the last 24 hours, no one knows how to resolve and have been giving me many different solutions

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I'm having the same issue as well, and I have no rental income to report either. Agree with the other posters here: if anyone is able to find out some information, it would be GREATLY appreciated if it's shared broadly! Thank you!

Level 2
January 28, 2023

Intuit needs to be on this ASAP.

 

Most all users with this issue have NO rental property income so the 8960 is not required.

Problem is if you e-file it will always reject since the Sch 1 Line 5 rental will always be blank and form 8960 requires this to be populated. You can only populate it if you enter rental property.

 

The solution is to DELETE form 8960 BUT Turbotax keeps recreating this. 

 

They really need to get on this with an update. Seems a simple fix as if there is no rental property there should be no 8960 form.

 

Re-submitting to the IRS with e-file will eventually exceed the # of attempts then you will be forced to mail which will take months and months to process. 

 

As a life long TT user its urgent TT fixes this to retain our trust otherwise a lot of people will be looking for other software next year.

Level 2
February 1, 2023

Did you look at last years taxes? I don't have any rental property either and a form was generated. I looked at last years taxes and it was also generated and accepted without any rental property. That's what makes me think its and IRS error. The Error code is an IRS code. 

 

I just looked on the irs website and there is a downloaded spreadsheet of known errors and solutions. This is listed there

      Tax Year 2022 Production Known Issues and Solutions       
Updated 01/25/2023       
Date enteredForm TypeIssue TypeDescription of the ProblemSolution(s)Projected Resolution DateDate ResolvedStatus
1/17/23Form 8960Business RulesBusiness Rules F8960-019-04 and F8960-003 may cause returns to erroneously reject. These business rules need to be modified to reflect the updates to the Instructions for Form 8960 (Tax Year 2022) regarding the Specific Instructions for Line 4a to include Schedule C (Form 1040) amounts reported on Schedule 1 (Form 1040), line 3 and Form 1041, line 3.Business Rules F8960-019-04 and F8960-003 will be updated in early PY2023.2/5/23 OPEN
Level 2
January 28, 2023

Pretty typic error message.  

 

First, no reference in 8960 to “Net Rental Income Or Loss Amount," but my best guess are lines 4a, 4b and 4c.  I have only self employment income, no rental income, but my self employment income is listed on 4a, it is then subtracted in 4b, and then 4c shows $0.  Kind of a head scratcher since the error message itself states that if the rental income or loss is not equal to zero, then it needs to show up on Schedule 1.

 

Second, no reference in Schedule 1 to Rental Real Estate Loss Amount.  Hmm.  

 

BUT, the error message itself suggests what may be the problem.  Three conditions are listed as necessary to have different amounts in 8960 and Schedule 1.  Conditions 1 and 3 are inconsistent.  If you are married and filing jointly, the filing threshold amount is $250,000, not $125,000.  Turbotax correctly filled in $250,000.  In my circumstance, lowering the filing threshold amount to $125,000 doesn't change my tax liability, so I forced $125,000 into the form (override function under the edit menu on a Mac) and then tried to refile electronically.  Turbo tax wouldn't let me, so I am left with the option of filing paper.  I understand that the IRS is pretty overloaded with paper due to staffing shortages so I really want to file electronically.  

 

My thought, then, is rather than calling Intuit, I will call the IRS on Monday and see what they can do.  Not optimistic about that, but I figure it is worth a try.  If that fails, I will paper file and put on my patience hat.  Wish me luck.  I will report back.  Good luck to you.  

Level 2
January 28, 2023

Cryptic error message, that is.  

Level 2
February 7, 2023

As of Sunday, Feb. 5, 2023 the same problem continues to exist with rejection due to form 8960 processing.  I finally figured out how to get a live person from TT on the phone.  While sympathetic, she said the problem is with the IRS as folks have commented here.  Due to the number of complaints, it would be good customer service for TT to respond in some way with a simple statement to ease our minds rather than each of us tracking it down ourselves.  I will call the IRS tomorrow and try and ascertain when the problem will be rectified.  If anyone on these threads hears anything useful please share.

Level 2
January 28, 2023

I am having the same problem. I read through the IRS instructions for form  1040 and 8960. From my reading of instructions, turbotax filled the form out correctly. I think the problem is on the IRS end. Question: Did everyone else with this rejection code file a 1099-Misc or 1099-NEC? 

 

and does anyone know if turbotax monitors these threads?

Level 2
January 28, 2023

i have a 1099 nec.. with same issue

Level 2
January 28, 2023

Tax expert said during our call he was notified of an official message that they are aware of this issue impacting many people; its brand new. They say they need to make some updates to their forms because there have been changes on the IRS side. He suggested waiting over the weekend and seeing if its fixed Monday/Tuesday or they may have a better handle on it. 

BligBlueLaser
Level 5
January 29, 2023

Same issue - both state returns rejected because federal return was rejected due to this error.

Based on accounts here of TT "support " on the issue, I'm sure hoping this an IRS issue...